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VSH Range

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Lucachino

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Alright so the range of the hale in VSH is completely broken to the point its unfun to play when you know that you'll get killed even tho you're above the hale.

After using my crappy memory to try and determine the range of the hale in VSH it appears that it's 1.5 - 2x the range of the whip which makes you able to hit RED team from real far away and sometimes, you're able to kill a player even tho they're behind you.

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My request would be lowering the range the hale gets in VSH, it isn't enjoyable to fight against a boss character while they're able to hit you from real far away
 

J R

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JR

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In my opinion hales range are balance, you are in a 1vs x players.
This 1 should have something to balance the games.(And in a close map neither).
That is not in the case of FF2 servers cause i dont know the ranges in that kind of boss.
However i am doing my own opinion.
 

Steve Harvey Oswald

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I've never had an issue with Hale's range. Yeah, it's long, but you have to keep in kind what Hale is up against. There are at least 3 classes that are constantly pushing the Hale around. Pyro, Soldier, and Demo are all whipping Hale all over the place. On top of this, you have classes like Soldier who can just jump around between ammo pickups endlessly, and classes like scout who, if they're smart, are nearly impossible to catch. That extra range may seem bogus, sometimes, but is very important when catching those who would rather run around and chip away damage or just push you away so others can deal damage.
 

Benedevil

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Hale's range can be fustrating at time, but as you can see from the winning scores on this sky high 24/7 server, it is already very difficult for hale to win a round
 

Lucachino

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I've never had an issue with Hale's range. Yeah, it's long, but you have to keep in kind what Hale is up against. There are at least 3 classes that are constantly pushing the Hale around. Pyro, Soldier, and Demo are all whipping Hale all over the place. On top of this, you have classes like Soldier who can just jump around between ammo pickups endlessly, and classes like scout who, if they're smart, are nearly impossible to catch. That extra range may seem bogus, sometimes, but is very important when catching those who would rather run around and chip away damage or just push you away so others can deal damage.
With the range the hale currently has, the hale has the ablility to hit people behind them (because of the way the disciplinary action works and the fact the hale's range is bigger then the disciplinary action) which makes it hard for spies to actually backstab the hale.

(This might be my shitty internet but) If you rocket jump as a soldier the hale still has a chance to hit you. As rocket jump and you're starting to get above the hale, they're able to hit you, same goes for pyro with flare jumps and demo's sticky jumps.

Pyro's airblast gives the hale faster rage, so if a pyro airblasts too much they doom themselfs and their team. This can get countered with the fan o war but it's hard to get in melee range with hale and not dying. Most pyro's I've seen also aren't really able to airblast (as in they airblast hale into their teammates) and hale is able to take advantage of that.

Yes, hale does need a huge range to take care of these things but the range hale has right now is honestly broken. So maybe decreasing the range of the hale by a little bit to maybe a range that's more than the eyelander, but less then the range it has now, (or just using the range of the whip) would be better instead of having a range that's 1.5x - 2x bigger than the range of the whip.
 

Benedevil

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This will make the underlying problem worse, which is that the hale losses 3/4 of time. So it would not make sense to implement this suggestion as it stands now
 

Lucachino

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View attachment 17446

Hale's range can be fustrating at time, but as you can see from the winning scores on this sky high 24/7 server, it is already very difficult for hale to win a round
It is frustrating to play as hale but it's also frustrating to for example attempt to escape from something that will kill you since of its range, and if it doesnt kill you it'll kill a person behind it because of the broken range of the whip. Maybe changing some things so hale can take care of the classes hale gets the most problems from (Engineer's with telefrags, Medics with uber + revives, Pyro with airblasts, Trolldier and Scout) like for example not allowing engi's to place a teleporter at CP, or giving pyro a higher airblast cost.
 

J R

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It is frustrating to play as hale but it's also frustrating to for example attempt to escape from something that will kill you since of its range, and if it doesnt kill you it'll kill a person behind it because of the broken range of the whip. Maybe changing some things so hale can take care of the classes hale gets the most problems from (Engineer's with telefrags, Medics with uber + revives, Pyro with airblasts, Trolldier and Scout) like for example not allowing engi's to place a teleporter at CP, or giving pyro a higher airblast cost.
You should enjoy in that game mode and you try to make a suggestion , but this time i am with Benedevil
View attachment 17446

Hale's range can be fustrating at time, but as you can see from the winning scores on this sky high 24/7 server, it is already very difficult for hale to win a round

Usually there are new players who starts as hale , and dont mind if the server has 5 players, if that 5 players are like experts in VSH ,Saxton have a low probability to win the round then i will add my personal experience .
I've playing VSH mode (Saxton hale) for a long time and i can say if the game has <25 players for hale is currently impossible to play for a lot of reasons.
 

Lucachino

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Right, so what is your proposed solution?
Fixing the range so that it isn't as OP as now, maybe making it higher then the eyelander or a bit less then the whip to try it out and maybe changing classes hale has the most trouble with.

Pyro | Increasing airblast cost by 10%

Soldier | Increasing self blast damage by 5% - 15%

Engi | Unable to place any buildings on the control point.

Scout | The more scout attempts to run away from the hale and be inactive in outputting a lot of damage, he gets slower overtime, (1% after 4 seconds) until it caps out at 10%. Scout is able to counter this by doing damage

Spy | Increasing the cooldown for the deadringer.

Medic | Maybe making it so that medics have a revive cap? As in, they can only revive a max amount of players since medic is real op in VSH being able to turn the tides of a game. Since if there are 3 medics you have to kill them max 6 times, and in the time they're alive they can revive the players hale killed. So maybe making medic have a max amount of revives (that'll increase the more players join) will make it easier for hale

Heavy | Decreasing the damage a heavy can do by 5 - 10%

Demo | The stickybomb launcher, quickiebomb launcher and scottish resistance will not be able to get crits from taunting, you will also not be able to place stickies on the Control Point.

Sniper | Increasing the damage the sniper takes when climbing.

(Engineer's with telefrags, Medics with uber + revives, Pyro with airblasts, Trolldier and Scout) like for example not allowing engi's to place a teleporter at CP, or giving pyro a higher airblast cost.

Usually there are new players who starts play as hale , and dont mind if the server has 5 players, if that 5 players are like experts in VSH ,Saxton have a low probability to win the round then i will add my personal experience .
I've playing VSH mode (Saxton hale) for a long time and i can say if the game has <25 players for hale is currently impossible to play for a lot of reasons.

I do have to agree that whenever the game has 25 players it's almost impossible to win as hale, but maybe changing the classes which usually demolish the hale (Demo with sticky traps on CP and Engi with a telefrag on CP | Pyro with pushing the hale around the entire time | Trolldier | Scout) can work with maybe helping the hale win more frequently or make it easier instead of having a range where you're able to hit people from behind.
 

J R

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JR

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Demo | The stickybomb launcher, quickiebomb launcher and scottish resistance will not be able to get crits from taunting, you will also not be able to place stickies on the Control Point.
How you suppose to control that ,rebuilding the map and placing a slippery control point like other maps ?
Or like a new rule ?

Engi | Unable to place any buildings on the control point.

The same with that
 

Lucachino

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How you suppose to control that ,rebuilding the map and placing a slippery control point like other maps ?
Or like a new rule ?



The same with that
Slippery control point, if you're not able to make engi unable to place buildings on the control point then maybe remove telefrags? Or change how long teleporters take to recharge/change the damage (if you're even able to do that). Or just change where hale spawns if he jumps off like in vsh_2fortdesk, where you teleport to a high place, maybe this can get changed to the roof above hale's spawn. It would be weird altho it's better then dying instantly because you fell off the map.
 

UberBench!

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Slippery control point, if you're not able to make engi unable to place buildings on the control point then maybe remove telefrags? Or change how long teleporters take to recharge/change the damage (if you're even able to do that). Or just change where hale spawns if he jumps off like in vsh_2fortdesk, where you teleport to a high place, maybe this can get changed to the roof above hale's spawn. It would be weird altho it's better then dying instantly because you fell off the map.
I don't think removing telegrags would be a good idea in my opinion. They do require some timing and are not that overpowered, I think the engie should be rewarded with his timing for telefrags.
 

UberBench!

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The only problem I see with removing engie buildings from the control point is that teammates can get stuck in them. I've never seen someone telefrag hale using the control point spawn, even if they were trying to.
 

J R

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JR

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The only problem I see with removing engie buildings from the control point is that teammates can get stuck in them. I've never seen someone telefrag hale using the control point spawn, even if they were trying to.
Welp
I've seen 1 guy who did it everytime but yea its not always.
 

UberBench!

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Welp
I've seen 1 guy who did it everytime but yea its not always.
It really isn't too common to see that. And Telefrags are very satisfying to pull off when done anywhere, due to the specific timing needed and the very small window the engineer has before hale quickly runs outside the tele, or destroys it immediately. I think it'll be fine to let them stay.
 

Lucachino

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I don't think removing telegrags would be a good idea in my opinion. They do require some timing and are not that overpowered, I think the engie should be rewarded with his timing for telefrags.
I respect your opinion, but we had a player once who thought it would a good idea to keep telefragging the hale once they fell down, and they did, they managed to ruin the fun by insta killing the hale.

It might be satisfying, but once you have that engi who just keeps telefragging for no reason it gets annoying and it just ruins the challenge VSH brings

It really isn't too common to see that. And Telefrags are very satisfying to pull off when done anywhere, due to the specific timing needed and the very small window the engineer has before hale quickly runs outside the tele, or destroys it immediately. I think it'll be fine to let them stay.

Even tho it might not be common, it still happens. And it's annoying as hell for the hale to be one shot from just falling down, which is why telefragging shouldn't be able to be done on the control point.
 

UberBench!

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I respect your opinion, but we had a player once who thought it would a good idea to keep telefragging the hale once they fell down, and they did, they managed to ruin the fun by insta killing the hale.

It might be satisfying, but once you have that engi who just keeps telefragging for no reason it gets annoying and it just ruins the challenge VSH brings



Even tho it might not be common, it still happens. And it's annoying as hell for the hale to be one shot from just falling down, which is why telefragging shouldn't be able to be done on the control point.
How often was he telefragging there? I can see why it could be annoying though.
 

Lucachino

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In my opinion hales range are balance, you are in a 1vs x players.
This 1 should have something to balance the games.(And in a close map neither).
That is not in the case of FF2 servers cause i dont know the ranges in that kind of boss.
However i am doing my own opinion.
(Sorry for the late reply) But the ranges in FF2 vary by bosses with Sergeant Painis having the largest range (I believe) of the whip.
 

Lucachino

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How often was he telefragging there? I can see why it could be annoying though.
Every round he tried to telefrag and he pulled it off almost every round to the point our own team was yelling at him in chat. I'm fine with "normal" telefragging but this was just too annoying and I honestly felt bad for every hale. They didn't even get a chance to play.
 
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