VSH Range

[Lucachino]

Alright so the range of the hale in VSH is completely broken to the point its unfun to play when you know that you'll get killed even tho you're above the hale.

After using my crappy memory to try and determine the range of the hale in VSH it appears that it's 1.5 - 2x the range of the whip which makes you able to hit RED team from real far away and sometimes, you're able to kill a player even tho they're behind you.

My request would be lowering the range the hale gets in VSH, it isn't enjoyable to fight against a boss character while they're able to hit you from real far away

 

[UberBench!]

Every round he tried to telefrag and he pulled it off almost every round to the point our own team was yelling at him in chat.

It's ultimately up to the moderators, but yeah, It sounds pretty annoying.

 

[RainbowRobb]

You said Hale is OP, then you list ways to nerf every class. Is it OP, or do you not like the the entire configuration? You say he is OP, then say you feel bad when he is telefragged.

 

[RainbowRobb]

You should enjoy in that game mode and you try to make a suggestion , but this time i am with Benedevil


Usually there are new players who starts as hale , and dont mind if the server has 5 players, if that 5 players are like experts in VSH ,Saxton have a low probability to win the round then i will add my personal experience .
I've playing VSH mode (Saxton hale) for a long time and i can say if the game has <25 players for hale is currently impossible to play for a lot of reasons.

This is because you only need 5 or 6 good players to kill the hale, the rest are just a distraction. 1 or 2 good medics, engies, heavies, demos, spies, snipers and the hale doesn't have a chance. The probability of having these good players increases with the number of players.

That being said, what if....the hale got like health on kill?

 

[Lucachino]

You said Hale is OP, then you list ways to nerf every class. Is it OP, or do you not like the the entire configuration? You say he is OP, then say you feel bad when he is telefragged.

I generally think hale's range is OP, but Benedevil said himself that if you were to nerf hale's range, it would even lower the chances of hale winning. So I just listed what would be a good solution in my opinion aka changing the OP aspects of most classes so it would be fair for the hale aswell and so VSH would be a challenge for red team. Since yes, just nerfing hales range makes it even harder, but the fact that it's unfun to get hit even tho you're behind the hale, and that the reason for the range to even be this big is because it's unfair for the hale does call for the classes to be balanced aswell so the broken range will get fixed.

 

[UberBench!]

This is because you only need 5 or 6 good players to kill the hale, the rest are just a distraction. 1 or 2 good medics, engies, heavies, demos, spies, snipers and the hale doesn't have a chance. The probability of having these good players increases with the number of players.

That being said, what if....the hale got like health on kill?

Health on kill? If your situation is true, Hale could easily focus the "distractions" first, then by the time he gets to the 5-6 people, he has high health, I don't think that would work. Also, a lot more than 5-6 players will be doing some damage, it depends on how much health he gets.

 

[Lucachino]

This is because you only need 5 or 6 good players to kill the hale, the rest are just a distraction. 1 or 2 good medics, engies, heavies, demos, spies, snipers and the hale doesn't have a chance. The probability of having these good players increases with the number of players.

That being said, what if....the hale got like health on kill?

I don't know, maybe if we gave these suggestions a test too see if it would be fair?

 

[x9_raven]

I think hale is fine rn. Half of the time the hale wins or red wins. Nerfing classes is unnecessary imo and telefrags are pretty funny.

 

[Lucachino]

I think hale is fine rn. Half of the time the hale wins or red wins. Nerfing classes is unnecessary imo and telefrags are pretty funny.

The thing is that 99% of the time hale loses when the server has 13+ players, and when there are less the chances for RED winning are still higher. Thats why most players who have been playing for a week know that you sometimes shouldnt go hale.

 

[RainbowRobb]

Health on kill? If your situation is true, Hale could easily focus the "distractions" first, then by the time he gets to the 5-6 people, he has high health, I don't think that would work. Also, a lot more than 5-6 players will be doing some damage, I don't think health on kill would be a solution.

Strictly speaking, only small portion of any given red team causes the equivalent damage of health they give hale by existing. Most players don't break 600 damage. Just look at a typical scoreboard. There are often 1 or 2 who do over 5k damage (sometimes over 10k) then there is a sharp drop off in damage performed by player.

 

[RainbowRobb]

I don't know, maybe if we gave these suggestions a test too see if it would be fair?

Possibly, I am just trying to focus on idea that do not require the entire plugin to be rebuilt. The more easily we could try to balance this, the fewer variables which are altered, the more likely the changes are to happen.

 

[Steve Harvey Oswald]

That being said, what if....the hale got like health on kill?

No thanks, Hale is already balanced. There is no reason to start tweaking things. No need to fix what isn't broken, that's how you get the Righteous Bison. The fact that most players will never break 600 damage just means that hp on kill is unneeded.

(This might be my shitty internet but) If you rocket jump as a soldier the hale still has a chance to hit you. As rocket jump and you're starting to get above the hale, they're able to hit you, same goes for pyro with flare jumps and demo's sticky jumps.

That's exactly my point. Have you ever played on VSH_Militaryarena? It's a small map with a large ammo and health pickup on all 4 corners of the map. Soldiers will rocket jump from pickup to pickup every time Hale starts even walking in their direction. They're already obnoxious to kill, but without that long range it very well might he impossible.

Also let's take into consideration just how trash the hitreg in TF2 is for melee. The amount of people who you can punch and have the server not register is astronomical. It's guaranteed to happen several times per round when playing as Hale. The way I see it, it's compensation for the long range.

Also, if you think playing Hale is frustrating, but you also think that playing red is frustrating, you might just not like VSH.

 

[Lucachino]

No thanks, Hale is already balanced.

Yeah the fact that he can hit enemies from behind, that he never stands a chance against 13 or more people, that he can have his rage drained in a couple of seconds, that he can lose all of his HP from a heavy with crits, that hale can get his HP drained from a non slippery control point does make him real balanced. You're able to stay away from hale and play sniper but if you're playing something like spy or demoknight then most of the time you're fucked if you're not able to cloak on time or able to get the HP pack.

Also let's take into consideration just how trash the hitreg in TF2 is for melee. The amount of people who you can punch and have the server not register is astronomical. It's guaranteed to happen several times per round when playing as Hale. The way I see it, it's compensation for the long range.

Yeah the hit reg is pretty trash but most of the time you'll be able to actually get a hit that registers, hit reg isn't something that always happens and where you'd always get trouble from most of the time. it might encounter a few times but after that you're probably able to actually hit the enemy.

That's exactly my point. Have you ever played on VSH_Militaryarena? It's a small map with a large ammo and health pickup on all 4 corners of the map. Soldiers will rocket jump from pickup to pickup every time Hale starts even walking in their direction. They're already obnoxious to kill, but without that long range it very well might he impossible.

I know military area/arena exists but I don't know if you saw but I asked for the classes to receive changes aswell since the classes are also OP in VSH altho the range doesn't help at all imo

Also, if you think playing Hale is frustrating, but you also think that playing red is frustrating, you might just not like VSH.

Weird because I do like VSH, its the main server I play on currently. I just honestly think the game is broken for both hale and red team.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

Declined based on reception and overall lack of direction.