Declined Jailbreak rules kinda suck OwO

[Foxless]

I would like the rules to be updated or at least discussed about with the community.

For instance the rules:

No tricky orders (top)
Your orders have to be clear. For example, you cannot say "All deads go to the yellow line." Don't give orders that can be misinterpreted if just a single syllable is not heard. Your orders may not have conflicting or double meanings (refer to No conflicting orders). This includes using markers to kill reds intentionally.

No renaming (top)
You cannot rename Reds to something different, only address them as "Reds or "Prisoners".

Whilst i understand the need for such rules, they very much enforce anti-fun. I remember way back when I was younger being a smart ass was part of the fun . Anyways the Australia server without admins turns to a lil bit of a shitshow later at night when they get a lot of people from Asia playing on them. Also the banned Mini-Games were the best back in the day, why they banned?

Would love to discuss moar.

xoxo
Foxless

 

[Console |]

I don't understand how having a rule that prevents wardens from giving tricky orders to kill reds is enforcing anti-fun. If anything, allowing tricky orders would make the server very much anti-fun for reds.

 

[Vick30]

The Minigames were all banned because they could all in one way or another easily lead to the breaking of rules.

 

[Tax Fraud]

We want reds to die from either trying to rebel or playing mini games. That is the essence of jailbreak in its most simple form. There are other ways to have fun than farming prisoners who couldn’t understand your 19 conflicting orders.

 

[Foxless]

I don't understand how having a rule that prevents wardens from giving tricky orders to kill reds is enforcing anti-fun. If anything, allowing tricky orders would make the server very much anti-fun for reds.

Howdy,

Well the goal of the blues is to allow the reds to play series of mini games and/or challenges till one red is standing to receive LR. Now this specific challenge is one of keen perception and encourages the reds to listen closely to the warden's orders. Although it can be very easily abused, I think it adds more variety to the gamemodes available to play.

 

[Foxless]

The Minigames were all banned because they could all in one way or another easily lead to the breaking of rules.

Hailo

Which rules? ? The server is already pretty chalk full of them as do most Jailbreak servers

 

[Foxless]

We want reds to die from either trying to rebel or playing mini games. That is the essence of jailbreak in its most simple form. There are other ways to have fun than farming prisoners who couldn’t understand your 19 conflicting orders.

Yo,

Fair enough, 19 conflicting orders seem a little on the topside of a crazy warden's narcissism. ? But still having the option to provoke different and creative ways to challenge the prisoners I think adds more fun to the already pretty crazy list of mini games of maps

 

[Foxless]

Just reading through the rules again...

Custom LR Guidelines (top)
You may not restrict player classes, communications, target individuals or do anything that impedes normal gameplay to others (like forcing players to crouch).

I feel like this just makes no sense to me, from what I remember almost 2 thirds of custom LR's had something to do with this list. For instance saying X and Y after or before every order... only heavy day or the worst case scenario having to hold the shift key for 6-7 minutes on a crouch day ?

And another one...

No lethal taunts (top)
Doing a taunt that can kill other players will make you KOS

This also makes no sense to me, why is doing a taunt that may kill a blue KOS? If it does kill a blue that is rebelling, otherwise i don't think this should be explicitly written in the rules but rather a rule the warden can say as an order.

 

[Vick30]

Hailo

Which rules? ? The server is already pretty chalk full of them as do most Jailbreak servers

For example, shark day allows the blue's to kill the REDs which gives the prisoners an unfair advantage. Thus breaking one of the rules called "No freekilling".

 

[Deleted member 2049]

The rules are fine, although I think the "tricky orders" rule can be a bit vague since anything can be considered tricky really lol

 

[Console |]

Howdy,

Well the goal of the blues is to allow the reds to play series of mini games and/or challenges till one red is standing to receive LR. Now this specific challenge is one of keen perception and encourages the reds to listen closely to the warden's orders. Although it can be very easily abused, I think it adds more variety to the gamemodes available to play.

You said it yourself, it can be very easily abused. This is the reason for this rule, and most likely other rules that you may think are “anti-fun”. The reason we have these rules is not to limit fun, but to make it fair and enjoyable for any player who decides to play on our servers.
If we allowed wardens to use trick orders as you ask, we’d all end up hearing wardens constantly say a confusing and/or conflicting order every round. The whole purpose of Jailbreak is not to die to a warden saying a tricky order, but rather to rebel or play minigames, and allowing the trick order rule, in my opinion, will only end up being abused.

 

[RainbowRobb]

Whilst i understand the need for such rules, they very much enforce anti-fun. I remember way back when I was younger being a smart ass was part of the fun

Being a "smart ass" was part of the fun for you, not the server. We made the rules to make it easier for the greatest number of players from the greatest number of backgrounds, to play. For example, someone with a strong accent renames reds to "dreads, beds, deads etc", it will be impossible to know if they are addressing the prisoners or not. If it is fun for you being a "smart ass", it was you just giving trick orders to try and kill the reds on technicalities, not because they didn't follow rules or lost during a game.

Also the banned Mini-Games were the best back in the day, why they banned?

It was decided long-ago that blues were not allowed to participate in mini-games, in part, because they have crits. The servers have remained very robust for years, which indicates that a large number of the TF2 Jailbreak base prefers it this way. If a person wants to play the minigames, they can be on red.



I would never want to push you to leave Blackwonder, but it sounds like you want to just have your own style of fun. That is awesome, but Blackwonder players have made it clear that they like the way JB operates here.

 

[Peter]

I think that the "AFK freeze while asking for a repeat" rule is unnecessary and annoying at times because it discourages reds from asking for repeats as many times I have asked for a repeat then been killed for delaying. I see that it was implemented to stop reds from abusing the feature but the thing is other reds can still abuse it. For example, if warden says "Go into fall game and AFK freeze" and a red wants to readjust to get a more fair chance of winning then they will have to wait for another red to ask for a repeat to be able to move while the person who asked is forced to remain AFK frozen the entire time.

On the other hand - if the rule was removed, then all reds will have the same opportunities in minigames, they won't be discouraged from asking for a repeat when needed, and the round will be able to move forward faster without reds constantly stopping and asking for repeats.

As a side note, I have never seen anyone actually kill a red for not being AFK frozen proving that rounds would still be able to function as normal.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

For example, if warden says "Go into fall game and AFK freeze" and a red wants to readjust to get a more fair chance of winning then they will have to wait for another red to ask for a repeat to be able to move while the person who asked is forced to remain AFK frozen the entire time.

Not true at all. You only have to be AFK while asking for the repeat. Once warden begins his repeat, you may do as you wish as long as you are following the orders warden is giving.
(Also in the above scenario, warden should prob give a chance to readjust anyway, just to make sure half the team doesnt die straight away from being in the minigame but not actually on the tiles ;p)

 

[Jim]

It appears Australia requires more proper administration.

My usual response to suggestions like this is “I don’t like it” isn’t an accepted argument to change something.

 

[Peter]

Not true at all. You only have to be AFK while asking for the repeat. Once warden begins his repeat, you may do as you wish as long as you are following the orders warden is giving.
(Also in the above scenario, warden should prob give a chance to readjust anyway, just to make sure half the team doesnt die straight away from being in the minigame but not actually on the tiles ;p)

AFK freeze when asking for a repeat (top)
When asking for a repeat, you must remain AFK frozen until the repeat has been given.

It says here that "you must remain AFK frozen until the repeat has been given" implying they must remain AFK frozen for the entire order instead of unfreezing when warden starts the repeat. Also, it can very often lead to delaying when warden says "follow markers" or "go to ..." and other similar orders because you need to wait for them to catch up. This could be solved by just allowing the person who asked for the repeat to follow the other reds (without rebelling) until warden finishes the repeat just like every other red does.

 

[breezie]

Player that started the thread took a 2-3 year hiatus before coming back to Jailbreak. Questioning the new rules compared to how it was 2-3 years ago doesn't correlate to how the "Rules aren't being enforced correctly". If anything, rules are being enforced - if they weren't why would the individual suggest changes to said rules.

 

[Foxless]

Being a "smart ass" was part of the fun for you, not the server. We made the rules to make it easier for the greatest number of players from the greatest number of backgrounds, to play. For example, someone with a strong accent renames reds to "dreads, beds, deads etc", it will be impossible to know if they are addressing the prisoners or not. If it is fun for you being a "smart ass", it was you just giving trick orders to try and kill the reds on technicalities, not because they didn't follow rules or lost during a game.



It was decided long-ago that blues were not allowed to participate in mini-games, in part, because they have crits. The servers have remained very robust for years, which indicates that a large number of the TF2 Jailbreak base prefers it this way. If a person wants to play the minigames, they can be on red.



I would never want to push you to leave Blackwonder, but it sounds like you want to just have your own style of fun. That is awesome, but Blackwonder players have made it clear that they like the way JB operates here.

Hai,

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression here ?. Maybe certain rules were adapted differently across the globe in different communities but I think its really cool how we can all align to one set of rules and they are a fair set of rules in my opinion... just different slightly different then the way I left them. I thought it would be nice to have a fair open discussion about these rules and the justification for adjusting them because I think that's the easiest way to align myself to the community.

Anyhow my impression is that there is something wrong with the communication here:

It appears Australia requires more proper administration.

My usual response to suggestions like this is “I don’t like it” isn’t an accepted argument to change something.

...And there is some sort of disarray among staff who enforce the rules. I do take a lil offense to you assuming that i just "don't like it" therefore that is my argument. I am trying to give some vivid counterpoints here ?. Can I ask that anything concerning this issue be moved to another thread or elsewhere thank you. ? (don't wanna get my thread kapoofed again ?)

Getting back on trackkkk...

AFK freeze when asking for a repeat (top)
When asking for a repeat, you must remain AFK frozen until the repeat has been given.

It says here that "you must remain AFK frozen until the repeat has been given" implying they must remain AFK frozen for the entire order instead of unfreezing when warden starts the repeat. Also, it can very often lead to delaying when warden says "follow markers" or "go to ..." and other similar orders because you need to wait for them to catch up. This could be solved by just allowing the person who asked for the repeat to follow the other reds (without rebelling) until warden finishes the repeat just like every other red does.

Yeah it seems a bit silly to afk freeze when asking for a repeat in that situation, when following markers. But yeah some clarification whether they have to be afk frozen during the whole repeat or just the start of it sounds a lil picky. Guess we'll see what other people think

The rules are fine, although I think the "tricky orders" rule can be a bit vague since anything can be considered tricky really lol

I do also agree with you here ? but tricky orders seems like a hard thing to define. There are the easy ones that I think were previously mentioned like: renaming reds to soundalike names such as beds,heads etc, or creating some elaborate string of commands together that counter the previous ones in the same sentence. But in terms of actually intentionally creating a tricky order to kill reds or just accidentally over-complicating an order makes it tricky itself to string together orders as an warden.

For example, shark day allows the blue's to kill the REDs which gives the prisoners an unfair advantage. Thus breaking one of the rules called "No freekilling".

Yeah the fun anyone would get out of freely murdering all of the reds in pool with a melee weapon (playing shark) always felt little cheap to me, but I guess it makes sense to just ban these gamemode because after-all the blues get to decide who to kill while playing. Consider my mind changed .

I would love someone to comment on my thoughts about these rules below
Thank you ❤

Just reading through the rules again...

Custom LR Guidelines (top)
You may not restrict player classes, communications, target individuals or do anything that impedes normal gameplay to others (like forcing players to crouch).

I feel like this just makes no sense to me, from what I remember almost 2 thirds of custom LR's had something to do with this list. For instance saying X and Y after or before every order... only heavy day or the worst case scenario having to hold the shift key for 6-7 minutes on a crouch day ?

And another one...

No lethal taunts (top)
Doing a taunt that can kill other players will make you KOS

This also makes no sense to me, why is doing a taunt that may kill a blue KOS? If it does kill a blue that is rebelling, otherwise i don't think this should be explicitly written in the rules but rather a rule the warden can say as an order.

 

[Jim]

...And there is some sort of disarray among staff who enforce the rules. I do take a lil offense to you assuming that i just "don't like it" therefore that is my argument. I am trying to give some vivid counterpoints here ?. Can I ask that anything concerning this issue be moved to another thread or elsewhere thank you. ? (don't wanna get my thread kapoofed again ?)

Getting back on trackkkk...

No tricky orders (top)
Your orders have to be clear. For example, you cannot say "All deads go to the yellow line." Don't give orders that can be misinterpreted if just a single syllable is not heard. Your orders may not have conflicting or double meanings (refer to No conflicting orders). This includes using markers to kill reds intentionally.

No renaming (top)
You cannot rename Reds to something different, only address them as "Reds or "Prisoners".

Whilst i understand the need for such rules, they very much enforce anti-fun. I remember way back when I was younger being a smart ass was part of the fun . Anyways the Australia server without admins turns to a lil bit of a shitshow later at night when they get a lot of people from Asia playing on them. Also the banned Mini-Games were the best back in the day, why they banned?

Calling for rule removals because they're "not fun" constitutes not liking it.

Just reading through the rules again...

Custom LR Guidelines (top)
You may not restrict player classes, communications, target individuals or do anything that impedes normal gameplay to others (like forcing players to crouch).

I feel like this just makes no sense to me, from what I remember almost 2 thirds of custom LR's had something to do with this list. For instance saying X and Y after or before every order... only heavy day or the worst case scenario having to hold the shift key for 6-7 minutes on a crouch day ?

And another one...

No lethal taunts (top)
Doing a taunt that can kill other players will make you KOS

This also makes no sense to me, why is doing a taunt that may kill a blue KOS? If it does kill a blue that is rebelling, otherwise i don't think this should be explicitly written in the rules but rather a rule the warden can say as an order.

Other people breaking the rules doesn't mean there's something wrong with it.
Reds are KOS when they lethal taunt because it's an intentional threat to the blues that can be lethal; If I point an unloaded gun in your face it's still considered assault even though I can't shoot you.

I don't say this to be mean but the suggestion literally will not be considered if there isn't an empirical reason for it. It also would be unreasonable for us to move forward with something like this because prior suggestions have been resuggested for years (like no blue crits) despite meeting the above criteria but they have not been agreed on as reasonable by the jailbreak staff. Jailbreak Australia is subject to the same rules as the other Blackwonder Jailbreak rules regardless of the staff presence. Sooner or later, myself or another seasoned jailbreak admin are going to join and enforce the rules as they should be. There's a line between server norms and changing the rules because people feel like it.

 

[Peter]

prior suggestions have been resuggested for years (like no blue crits) despite meeting the above criteria but they have not been agreed on as reasonable by the jailbreak staff.

Perhaps this (no blu crits) could become a custom lr day as a sort of trial to see how hard it is for the blus to cope similarly to how guards melee only day works.

I also agree that lethal taunting is rightly KOS as it basically the same as charging a sniper shot in the face of a blu but reds don't need ammo to use them. The only time a red would use a lethal taunt is to kill a blu which is rebelling and therefore makes them KOS.