Declined icos999's Team Ban appeal

[icos999]

Username: icos999

What is your type of punishment?
Team Ban

Where were you banned from? Servers

What is your SteamID? icos999

Who has punished you?
Jim

Why were you punished?
Freekill

Why should we revoke your punishment?
https://blackwonder.tf/threads/report-against-icos-jailbreak-us.35737/#post-133233
I did not freekill. The spy was KOS because he went into the blus melee range for no reason.


Red Team (top)
These rules apply to all the prisoners/reds. Breaking these rules make you KOS.

One of the red rules is:
No griefing
During a personal freeday, you may not get into melee range of the Blue team for no reason, trap Blues by bodyblocking, activate minigames (Death Run, Fall Game, 9 Square, ...) or put non rebel members of the Red team in danger such as by closing a door on them, activating a minigame while they are inside or pushing them away from their destination when collisions are on.

 

[icos999]

We had this exact discussion about this exact situation on discord with admins before, and they said I was allowed to kill in such situations (and they become KOS)

 

[StenRodd]

The rules meant "you MAY not get into it", not "you MUST not get into melee range"
you may enter blus melee range unless warden gave order not to do it

No force-baiting​

Do not go out of your way to enter an opposite team members' melee range to claim that they are baiting. On freeday LRs, blues are allowed to swing at you if you bait them (but not chase) and order you to not block their path (such as through a doorway).

You believe you know the rules but you don't, this isn't your first time https://discord.com/channels/140896596152811520/215860920583192586/1125479561640030248, we explained it on requesthelp and yet you still didn't listen or forgot about it

In my opinion this teamban is justify

 

[icos999]

StenRodd, your post is almost too embarrassing to respond to. I'll do it anyway.

The rules meant "you MAY not get into it", not "you MUST not get into melee range"

English is clearly not your first language (nor is it mine) but in this particular context "may not" and "must not" obviously mean the same thing. Rules specify what you can and cannot do when the answer is not immediately obvious. Just use common sense. There is absolutely no point to having a rule that specifies that reds may choose not to go to the melee range of a blu for no reason. That is already obviously true, and there isn't any need for a rule to specify it. Which means that the rule is saying that freedays are *not* allowed to enter blus melee range for no reason.
What you're doing right now is interpreting a rule in a very unreasonable manner to justify me being teambanned (even though I was in the right 100%) and breaking the common sense rule. Pretty unbecoming for a moderator.

On freeday LRs, blues are allowed to swing at you if you bait them (but not chase) and order you to not block their path (such as through a doorway).

But it was not a freeday LR, it was a personal freeday. If you (again unreasonably) interpret freeday LRs to include personal freedays, then this rule would apply to all reds during the day after the LR is chosen, not just the freedays, which is clearly ridiculous. This rule obviusly doens't include personal freedays, because there is a different rule specifically talking about personal freedays going into blus melee range and saying that that is KOS.

StenRodd, a lot of this is still beside the point because during the conversation on discord that you linked we've had this exact discussion about this exact situation with @Comet and he said that (just as the rules very obviously imply) freedays going into blus melee range for no reason makes them KOS and warden is allowed to kill them. Please refer to the screenshot that I posted.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

Unfortunately for you @Peter was incorrect in the provided screenshot, or at least not entirely forthcoming. Warden is required to give some sort of verbal warning before declaring a freeday red KoS for something that minor and can't just start shooting freedays that bump into him otherwise.
"But that's not written in the rules!"
Perhaps not directly, but common sense would dictate that you might want to be a bit careful before deciding to potentially deny someone's LR, no? Especially since you've only spent about 3 days of the past month unteambanned.
"If Comet was wrong I should be unteambanned! It isn't my fault!"
Perhaps if your approach had been a bit different this could've been an option, but considering your reaction was to throw a fit in requesthelp and accuse the admin that wrote the rules of misinterpreting them, I don't think it would be too long before something like this would happen again.
Your fate is ultimately in @Jim 's hands now. Better hope he's in a forgiving mood.

 

[icos999]

Perhaps not directly, but common sense would dictate that you might want to be a bit careful before deciding to potentially deny someone's LR, no?

Yes, and I only killed because I talked about exactly this kind of situation with Comet and he said I was allowed to kill them.

If we didn't have this discussion, I wouldn't have killed the freeday (even though the rules imply I can) just because I know I'm likely to be reported and admins don't really take the rules very seriously and have a personal bias against me so will ban me. However, we did have a discussion about exactly this kind of situation, and an admin said it was allowed, so I thought I was safe in doing the right thing.

accuse the admin that wrote the rules of misinterpreting them,

Well he did misinterpret them, whether he wrote them himself or not. The rules very clearly imply that a freeday going up to blus melee range without any reason counts as griefing and makes them KOS, as I have pointed out in this thread and as Comet has pointed out in the screenshots that I posted.

If that's not what Jim meant when he was writing the rule, that's his own problem, and he shouldn't accuse others (including admins) for not being able to mind read what he actually meant when it contradicts what he wrote.

The fact is, I didn't break any rule that's in the JB rule wiki, and was given explicit clearance to do what I did by an admin. My interpretation of the rules is not unreasonable as evidenced by the fact that at least one of your admins interprets the rules the same way I did. Given these facts, I should be unteambanned.

 

[Cammy]

(RED)No force-baiting​

Do not go out of your way to enter an opposite team members' melee range to claim that they are baiting. On freeday LRs, blues are allowed to swing at you if you bait them (but not chase) and order you to not block their path (such as through a doorway).

(BLU)No force-baiting​

During freedays or special rounds, do not stand in front of ladders, doorways or other chokepoints in order to prevent the reds from getting past without baiting.

Use common sense.​

If you need this explained, you probably shouldn't be playing Jailbreak. Don't interpret rules in an unreasonable manner.


If you'd read the rules then the original conversation would've never needed to happen.

 

[icos999]

(RED)No force-baiting

Do not go out of your way to enter an opposite team members' melee range to claim that they are baiting. On freeday LRs, blues are allowed to swing at you if you bait them (but not chase) and order you to not block their path (such as through a doorway).

Already addressed this point in my response to StenRodd. The situation in question didn't happen during a freeday.

(BLU)No force-baiting​

During freedays or special rounds, do not stand in front of ladders, doorways or other chokepoints in order to prevent the reds from getting past without baiting.

Why did you highlight "do not stand in front of ladders"? Was I standing in front of ladders when I killed the spy going up to my melee range and staying there for no reason?

Use common sense.​

If you need this explained, you probably shouldn't be playing Jailbreak. Don't interpret rules in an unreasonable manner.

Already addressed in my previous response.

If you'd read the rules then the original conversation would've never needed to happen.

Your response to the thread never needed to be posted. It adds nothing to the conversation and only demonstrates that you haven't read the thread you're posting in and either haven't read the rules or don't understand them.
But you scored your points against "le evil icos" in the eyes of the low IQ part of the BW community, so good job I guess.

 

[crikey]

The situation in question didn't happen during a freeday.

The spy was a freeday.

Why did you highlight "do not stand in front of ladders"? Was I standing in front of ladders when I killed the spy going up to my melee range and staying there for no reason?

Due to a previous situation you complained about being teambanned for.

either haven't read the rules or don't understand them.

Could say the same about you.

 

[StenRodd]

"may not" and "must not" obviously mean the same thing. Rules specify what you can and cannot do when the answer is not immediately obvious. Just use common sense. There is absolutely no point to having a rule that specifies that reds may choose not to go to the melee range of a blu for no reason.

reds may enter melee range but warden can swing his melee to kill him even without order, if warden told freedays don't enter other guards melee range, they could be kos depends on what context, and if the freeday was in your melee range, you should of used your melee instead of shooting that spy, sorry for not adding context there

But it was not a freeday LR, it was a personal freeday. If you (again unreasonably) interpret freeday LRs to include personal freedays, then this rule would apply to all reds during the day after the LR is chosen, not just the freedays, which is clearly ridiculous. This rule obviusly doens't include personal freedays, because there is a different rule specifically talking about personal freedays going into blus melee range and saying that that is KOS.

First of all, I'm trying my best explaining the rules, I just copy and pasted it from rules without ever changing it, no baiting rule said freedays LRs not freeday for all lr, you can check it out on rules on yourself, we are explaining the rules so you can understand the context, if it was freeday for all, rules should of meant freeday for all not freeday lrS

StenRodd, a lot of this is still beside the point because during the conversation on discord that you linked we've had this exact discussion about this exact situation with @Comet and he said that (just as the rules very obviously imply) freedays going into blus melee range for no reason makes them KOS and warden is allowed to kill them. Please refer to the screenshot that I posted.

That reply wasn't there before, I reply before it got your screenshot reply approved, if you need to explained everything about rules, you shouldn't play JB, I'm not interpreting a rule in a very unreasonable manner, yes I made some errors before, I sometimes asked higher ups, sometimes searching rules simplified on discord and I'm trying my best to explain it properly.

For now wait for Jim on what he will do with your teamban since comet thinks it was allow and Jim thinks it was not, so Jim will decide what to do,
If you got anymore questions, go ask and talk on discord about it

 

[Jim]

You've been regularly aggressive and rude towards other players and staff members the past few days, do not readily acknowledge this scenario or prior ones where you were wrong or caused needless discord, and have gone out of your way to be disruptive on discord and the game servers to draw attention.

You should really reconsider why you even bother to play when you seem to enjoy annoying others more than participating in the actual gameplay.