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Zombie Survival balance changes and reworks for Engineers and Medics.

Turrican

Sufficiently Lethal
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Messages
126
I believe that there can be some improvements and some nerfs that could be done to make certain perks or things in general to even-out the playing field, so here's my suggestions and I highly recommend adding it to the game as it's been left un-updated for months.

The !zs_perks and !nominate menu should appear at the top left of the corner of the screen as the status for your current perk will cover over it making it hard to see, also maybe increase the menu size of the !zs_perks menu by a little.

Some of the perks need a description update as soon as they get balanced.

Every Engineer should have 150 health as it should be as forcing people to exclusively use 1 weapon is a outdated design choice for zs.

Engineer's normal Jetpack and Medic Leaps should be at the same cool-down, 9 seconds long, as 7 seconds for medic and 10 seconds for Engineer isn't very fair at all as it makes escaping far harder than it should. Engineer's Battery Jetpack's double cool-down should stay at 18 seconds.

Engineer's Pusher perk needs a bit of a buff as it really never gets used and the -30 damage penalty isn't deserved too much, so instead change the -30% damage penalty with a -20% damage penalty instead whereas another perk like Freezer would.

Engineer's Sneaky Pardner perk should get a bit of a buff, currently it's invisible cloak effect would only last around 7 seconds, so bump up the invisible duration by 3 seconds making it 10 seconds, and make it that the Medic's Seeker temperature won't be able to pick up you at all.

Medic's Warden ability should be Warden exclusive, so Juggernauts don't teleport anymore, Wardens should be allowed to use their leaps whenever they want without having to wait extra cool-down when other medics use leaps nearby. Warden's leaps should be the only Medics who can do knock-back when hitting midair with a leap to make them more unique compared to Juggernauts and normal zombie Medics.

Medic's Warden ability shouldn't be allowed to teleport other Wardens.

Medic's Juggernauts need their Breaker Bonus ability to be capped at +50 building damage, +100 Breaker Bonus is very unfair to whom's Engineer colony spot gets it as IT will destroy Level 3 Dispensers and Teleporters in 1-melee hit and will stay that way unless the Juggernaut dies.

Engineers should be able to place their Teleporter exits as normal without the need of putting down a Dispenser first then placing the exit in-front, this is very out-dated and semi-bypassible, for one Tele-bans could be placed upon players who exploit by Moderators, OR a exploit in a map needs to be patched, this anti-exploit method created by Hagvan isn't 100% fool-proof as some exploits are still possible even with this change implemented months back, so allow Engineers to place exits as normal.

And give players the option to use !vote to extend the timer from 230 seconds to 320 seconds, this would help players greatly against huge maps like Cp_Scarab, Pl_Rocket_Ravine and whatnot which are much larger maps by scale.

Thanks and I hope these get added.
 
Last edited:

SirDilly

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The health boost for the stock wrench must be a priority because f2ps who join will be limited to 125 hp. They don’t have the gunslinger in their inventory. This game mode should not be pay to play. We want more players join and have equal experience. Too many leave because they get two shot instantly.
 

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Turrican

Sufficiently Lethal
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Messages
126
The health boost for the stock wrench must be a priority because f2ps who join will be limited to 125 hp. They don’t have the gunslinger in their inventory. This game mode should not be pay to play. We want more players join and have equal experience. Too many leave because they get two shot instantly.
Yeah I've understood this for a very long time, and there's many more ways to wind up killing you as such leap market gardens, and people shouldn't be forced to use a weapon with a very MINOR upside, besides it adds more open-ended gameplay and generally allows for more perk combinations
 

A Gary

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Nov 13, 2020
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As much as I like the idea of Sneaky Partner getting buffed maybe make it so that if you bump into someone you're partially revealed like spy's watches, instead of you just bumping into people making them confused.
 

Turrican

Sufficiently Lethal
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Messages
126
I feel like the meds should get a buff, now they seem a bit underpowered
How exactly, if anything there's more imbalances with the class, when medics got buffed months ago all hell broke loose, Hagvan reached some decent-ish changes but not all is perfect thus I created this post as a way to find a better balance and use for perks and medics
 

Broboy4803

Notably Dangerous
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Messages
112
I think medic should be slightly stronger than engie because medics usually start very out numbered, maybe just start with some more meds depending on how many people are on the server idk.
 

Turrican

Sufficiently Lethal
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Messages
126
I think medic should be slightly stronger than engie because medics usually start very out numbered, maybe just start with some more meds depending on how many people are on the server idk.
They already are in many ways it would make no sense to be needlessly buffing them to be solo-tanks like before, medics are the 2nd fastest class in the game, currently have 7 second cooldowns, 2nd leap, wardens, hp regen, resistance, breaker bonus, what more do they need really, and IF the noobs start disconnecting causing people to leave afterwards because they're medic, then the game should probably reward you to be a medic by joining blu, or aside from tiny situations when there's more than 6 medics
 

SirDilly

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They already are in many ways it would make no sense to be needlessly buffing them to be solo-tanks like before, medics are the 2nd fastest class in the game, currently have 7 second cooldowns, 2nd leap, wardens, hp regen, resistance, breaker bonus, what more do they need really, and IF the noobs start disconnecting causing people to leave afterwards because they're medic, then the game should probably reward you to be a medic by joining blu, or aside from tiny situations when there's more than 6 medics
7 second leaps are important for maps like cyberpunk and scarab
 

10000 Cold Knights

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The whole mode needs to be overhauled. Engineers being able to effectively super jump to climb map boundaries is frankly absurd, as is a lot of the medic's current abilities that have been over-scaled to compensate.
Every Engineer should have 150 health as it should be as forcing people to exclusively use 1 weapon is a outdated design choice for zs.
Only if the GS gets some other buff so it's existence isn't completely invalidated.
The health boost for the stock wrench must be a priority because f2ps who join will be limited to 125 hp. They don’t have the gunslinger in their inventory. This game mode should not be pay to play. We want more players join and have equal experience. Too many leave because they get two shot instantly.
They can try it out from the Mannco store at no cost....
Engineer's normal Jetpack and Medic Leaps should be at the same cool-down, 9 seconds long, as 7 seconds for medic and 10 seconds for Engineer isn't very fair at all as it makes escaping far harder than it should. Engineer's Battery Jetpack's double cool-down should stay at 18 seconds.
Battery Jetpack should just be removed, there's no good use for it besides using it to get to game-breaking areas. Jetpack should be tuned to make sure it can't be used in the same manner.
Engineer's Pusher perk needs a bit of a buff as it really never gets used and the -30 damage penalty isn't deserved too much, so instead change the -30% damage penalty with a -20% damage penalty instead whereas another perk like Freezer would.
This perk almost never sees play outside of knocking people into death hazards on certain maps. I'd honestly merge this with Texas Style to give the melee a bit more oomph.
Engineer's Sneaky Pardner perk should get a bit of a buff, currently it's invisible cloak effect would only last around 7 seconds, so bump up the invisible duration by 3 seconds making it 10 seconds, and make it that the Medic's Seeker temperature won't be able to pick up you at all.
Not getting picked up at all is too extreme, the function should no longer work if SP engies are the only ones alive. They also shouldn't proc summons.
Wardens should be allowed to use their leaps whenever they want without having to wait extra cool-down when other medics use leaps nearby.
All meds should have this, but none of them should have second leap. If the Jetpacks are dealt with properly it shouldn't be needed.
Warden's leaps should be the only Medics who can do knock-back when hitting midair with a leap to make them more unique compared to Juggernauts and normal zombie Medics.
A shorter leap cooldown wouldn't be bad for them either.
 

Turrican

Sufficiently Lethal
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Messages
126
7 second leaps are important for maps like cyberpunk and scarab
There's a prophunt version which adds more space to the lower ground, doors removed so no more waiting, and adds staircases and bridges so Jetpack isn't mandatory to get on, but unfortunately the map has some questionable textures and it uses Arena logic which may break the map
 

Turrican

Sufficiently Lethal
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Messages
126
The whole mode needs to be overhauled. Engineers being able to effectively super jump to climb map boundaries is frankly absurd, as is a lot of the medic's current abilities that have been over-scaled to compensate.

Only if the GS gets some other buff so it's existence isn't completely invalidated.

They can try it out from the Mannco store at no cost....

Battery Jetpack should just be removed, there's no good use for it besides using it to get to game-breaking areas. Jetpack should be tuned to make sure it can't be used in the same manner.

This perk almost never sees play outside of knocking people into death hazards on certain maps. I'd honestly merge this with Texas Style to give the melee a bit more oomph.

Not getting picked up at all is too extreme, the function should no longer work if SP engies are the only ones alive. They also shouldn't proc summons.

All meds should have this, but none of them should have second leap. If the Jetpacks are dealt with properly it shouldn't be needed.

A shorter leap cooldown wouldn't be bad for them either.
While I do see your point, everyone pretty much over-exaggerates how OP Jetpack / Leaps are, all thats needed to be done is to edit certain maps with very busted spots like Dustbowl_Zombie's 2 skybox clips as it isn't nessesarly the perk's fault.

GS could get a crit rework like it did on Rushy where if you killed somebody with it, your crit will be stored but even then you shouldn't be forced to stick with a single melee option which doesn't grant anything important BUT 25+ hp, oh and Mann Co. trials are a week only.

Battery Jetpack is a side-grade which allows you to get you spots faster and escape easily, but at the cost of double cool-down and no abilities to build which is perfectly fine, like I said, just patch certain spots, but because Medics have 7 second cool-downs meanwhile also being the 2nd fastest class in the whole game is utterly non-sense as even if you were to use 2 Battery Jet leaps, you would just get caught up by a Medic because of their base cool-down.

Okay for this one for Pusher, I could see it being morphed along-side with Texas Style, but then you have to ask how far it'll knock-back people, Texas Style had splash damage which was the worst thing to exist, and it kills Meds effortlessly, plus there *may even be a hit-box* bug with the speed increase ala-old Baby Face's Blaster and it gives Engineers Diciplinary Action melee range.

Alright I see how this could work with Sneaky Pardner.

There's a reason why its not like that anymore because when Leaps were implemented (including 2nd Leaps) there weren't any mini-cool-downs which made it all the too easy to kill off any spot, hell one time I was in Gorge_Event using the old tree spot and the Medics used up all their 2nd Leaps at once, oh did I mention how 2nd Leap would just 1-shot all the time before, Hagvan did this for a reason and I feel like giving this to Wardens would make them far more unique than Juggernauts, as of right now they're all too similar aside 2 things.

If 2nd Leap were to be removed, a lot of spots would need to be removed sadly.

But thanks for giving some insight.
 
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