Declined Wolf's calladmin idea explained

[Buster]

Oi, so the idea is to integrate calladmin in a way that is manageable for us and still accessible for all of the players.

It'll look something like this. If you type !calladmin a menu will popup. This is the structure of the menu:

1. Ongoing reports
   • Reported player 1
   • Reported player 2
     • Agree
     • Agree, add own reason
     • Disagree
     • Back
   • Back
2. Make a new report
   • Player 1
   • Player 2
     • Spamming
     • Obscene language
     • etc.
     • Other (If you choose Other you have to type the reason in chat)
     • Back
   • Back
3. Close

Okay, so we got the menu, how would this actually work? Lets explain that with an example.

Lets say I want to report X for being racist. I'll type !calladmin, choose "Ongoing reports", see that there is no report of X. Go back and choose "Make a new report", choose X(him), choose other(Reason), type in chat "racist".

This will create a report in "Ongoing reports". Lets say Wolf wants to report the same guy for the same reason. He goes into "Ongoing reports", He sees that X is already reported by someone (by me), he clicks at the report.
He sees some basic information like:

Reported person:
Reason:
Reported by:
Time:​

Then he can choose to "Agree" with the report, or "Agree and add his own reason" if he doesn't like the original one. He could even "Make a new report" on the same guy, that would just count as an agreement + his own reason. When he agrees he'll get something like this in chat: "X has been successfully reported, X needs Y more times to be reported for the report to be passed / accepted."

When would we be notified about the report? When more than 1/3 of the server has reported the person. This could be debated, it could be 30, 40% or 1 more person than half of the servers population. Whatever you prefer.

The way we would get the report is through discord or steam. We would see the following things if the report gets passed to us:

Server:

Name
IPadress (could be a reference somehow so when I click it I start joining, maybe?)
Number of players on the server​

Reported:

Name
SteamID
IPadress
Link to profile (maybe)
Link to HLstatsX profile (extremely maybe)​

Reason(s): *All the reasons people gave us*
Time: *Either the time when the report gets passed or the time when it first gets created*
Reported by: *All the people's name who agreed with the report*​

Some other fairly important information regarding this:

• We don't need those guys information who made (or agreed with) the report because it will be hard to prank call an admin this way and we'd have to punish 30, 40 or more % of the server if it turns out to be a joke, which is just a pain in the ass and will most likely never happen.
• In "Ongoing reports", people would only see the original reason the first player gave, they wouldn't see the reasons given by others who agreed with the report.
• Disconnected players shouldn't have an impact on the report anymore.
• Reports should be ongoing until the map ends, until they get passed / accepted or for 20-30 minutes. After that they should be closed / declined automatically.
• If the reported player disconnects the report should still stay open for the required time because in case it gets passed and the reason was spam, then we can check for spam in the person's chat log.
• If a number of people (same as needs to pass the report) disagrees with the report, the report closes.
• This should not be confused with the "Report a player" format on the forum.

Tell me what you think, I'm sure I left a few things out, suggest good numbers for the threshold or other features, share concerns.
Cheers!

 

[Loldielol]

Would be nice feature to add, though I can see this taking possibly forever to get into play.

 

[Buster]

Would be nice feature to add, though I can see this taking possibly forever to get into play.

It's not much more complex than other calladmin plugins or the calladmin website we had on blueprint. It could be advertised in chat and people would get the hang of it within a few weeks. Or what do you mean by taking a long time to get into play?

 

[Loldielol]

Well not entirely sure if you mean to report players via a command or by the pop up like when you're voting on a map change but if its done via command IE /report X reason < WHERE X is player and reason is obviously the reason in why you're reporting them then it shouldn't take that much effort.

But from my past experience in creating something that uses the menu it took me ages to sort it out, can't remember what it was for but it too was something for server to website communications.

Though I would still like to see this feature.

Although I am not sure how this information on players that are reported would get posted through to Discord, unless it uses some sort of API?

 

[Buster]

The only command you'd have to use is !calladmin. Everything else is in the menus. Seems like that wasn't really clear. The whole point of this is that several people need to report 1 player to successfully call an admin. Everything else is just design and detail of how it should work. The current donator only calladmin posts stuff on discord, that part of it can't be a lot different.

 

[will5023]

admittedly i feel like there should be a way to open up call admin to everyone as since we got rid of the global option and made it donor only we have hardly any a day, i didnt feel stressed by the capacity of them and while a few were salty people a large majority were fair reports and i feel with the global gone we may be missing a lot, so to open it up so people could maybe do this vote option or a vote call admin thing may be good? idk i'm coming up with this as i type

 

[Buster]

If you go to any community with much less servers and search for "calladmin". I guarantee you'll find threads and admin apps with "I want to become admin because calladmin takes an hour to respond, no one is coming". It's not because those admins are lazy. It's because it's too much and it gets really annoying once you run into trolls. You just can't do it with 170 servers, we couldn't handle it on blueprint and how much was that? 20 servers? I don't remember

So that's why we need something like this. The problem with votes is that it's really obvious to the rule breaker. What would happen is you'd jump around servers finding that the person who was reported left. Also since anyone can start a vote the chance of pranking you is much higher especially on less populated servers.

P.S.: told ya no one is going to use the donor only calladmin. Donors are donors so they can handle stuff on their own, mostly..

 

[Loldielol]

The only command you'd have to use is !calladmin. Everything else is in the menus. Seems like that wasn't really clear. The whole point of this is that several people need to report 1 player to successfully call an admin. Everything else is just design and detail of how it should work. The current donator only calladmin posts stuff on discord, that part of it can't be a lot different.

Then yeah, this would be a good idea, I haven't been on Discord in ages now, so that explains why I didn't know
Id personally design a web page also for this, have it make a sound when a vote was successful or something too, or even a program that runs in the background on an admins PC that reads through the database for any successful votes and then notifies them.

 

[Buster]

I just thought of something. Could we add a feature to this plugin that when players are reported, the server starts recording a demo of them? We could maybe use the server replay function that valve provides. LINK
Or one of these mods MOD1 MOD2

So when someone reports a player the server starts to record a demo, either of the reported player or of everybody (that is what replay is, it records everybody's perspective). If the report gets closed, the demo gets deleted. If the report is accepted and forwarded to us we also receive the demo together with all the other information. This way we could handle calladmin reports without even joining a server AND we could handle calladmin reports which we missed because no one was online!!!

This probably is possible, I just don't know how much space this would take up if 1 report is open for a maximum of 15 minutes. Lets say there is 1 ongoing report on every one of the 170 servers. How much space does a 15 minute demo take up? (Of course it's not really realistic to think 170 reports could be open at the same time)

What (the hell) do you think?

Spoiler: Don't click

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[2010wolf | Blw.tf]

(Of course it's not really realistic to think 170 reports could be open at the same time)

i think it's more realistic if we just focus of jailbreak, DR, VSH, Hidden, and other servers that has a higher chance of receiving reports from them. ;D

 

[Buster]

Because of the recent calladmin related threads I decided to move this from Admin Lounge to Suggestions so in the future, people can see that we have a solution ready. Plus this feature would serve the players so this is it's rightful place.

Bene has formerly said that he likes the idea so hopefully as this problem is becoming more and more relevant and we're not receiving any good admin applications this suggestion, when it's completed will solve many people's problems.

 

[Jim]

The idea is fine but the way it's being suggested is awful. I'll use the /fire command in jailbreak as an example. I've seen quite a few times where either there's some afk warden or the warden isn't following lr or something and people sit there and whine about it. Sure there are a good chunk of people who do /fire right away but a majority of the people don't even understand when other's say to fire and give very valid reasons. Sadly the average person isn't always competent enough to do what's right. My point here is that if we can't get a command as simple as /fire going when it should half the time than a /calladmin menu where you have to do multiple things to send in a report seems a little ridiculous.

 

[Buster]

The thing is, I don't see a solution that is more simplistic and still not just a huge spam for us.
This is the simplest we could think of, !calladmin -> make a new report -> choose player -> choose reason -> wait

Those 2 people who created a thread today regarding calladmin and those several people who are bothering me online with a calladmin because they can't play on our servers are competent enough. And we should assume that eventually 1/3 (or less depending on the threshold, maybe 1/4 would be better, that's 6 people on a 24 slot server) of the server will be competent enough.
There is no perfect solution, but we can offer one which is imo good enough and gives a fair chance for every server to report rule breakers quickly or quicker than

 

[Jim]

I say you do /calladmin, pick a player, type in a reason, then it says abuse will get you banned/gagged or whatever but press 1 to continue, confirm one more time. If anyone abuses they get punished. Also make it anonymous to other players so only admins can see if a report was filed. Before if a donor or someone did it, the command would say in like orange text or something "Player Jim blw.tf has reported will5023 for freekilling" to everyone on the server. It doesn't help if the rule breaker knows he's being reported and stops before someone in charge arrives.

 

[Buster]

That calladmin results in a huge morale/motivation loss for admins and especially with 170 servers is a massive spam.
I'll link panda's "The best of calladmin" thread to demonstrate what happens. And we can talk from experience, the calladmin you talk about is not manageable with this many servers. We couldn't handle it back on blueprint when we had like 20 or something. So when you talk about competent people, with that solution you mostly avoid them and all you get is the other part of the players.

It doesn't help if the rule breaker knows he's being reported and stops before someone in charge arrives.

You can make it so the guy who's being reported won't see the messages and can't see himself in the menus that's not a problem.

 

[Jim]

Me not being an admin, I don't actually have even a rough estimate for how many reports you guys would get so my apologies there; I didn't realize this until just now. Since what you say is correct than I have a more radical idea. How about a reputation system. It's open to all players at first and the spam ensues for a few days. People who abuse lose the /calladmin privilege but people who made valid reports get reputation points. When someone with a high reputation sends in a report, admins can prioritize which reports are more likely to be legit and the ones that are spam. Or an even more radical idea is have people apply for the /calladmin permission on the forums.

gratz on 500 messages btw

 

[Buster]

I don't like the rep system since it's the same as the original but with fancy numbers next to the reports. We'd still "have" to go and check out every report.

The apply for calladmin on the other hand is not a bad idea. You could argue if it's simpler or not. You'd have to make a new application form that would be spammed like hell here on the forum, so we would have to make it so it doesn't appear on the "new posts" "new threads" part but rather we would check it manually or a notification would be sent to us. The person who applied would either be automatically given the powers once the application is accepted or ben would have to edit things so we admins can give calladmin powers to people. Then if the calladmin is abused we would need the ability to take those calladmin powers away. Plus you miss out on all the people who don't want to spend time here on the forums applying, who just want to play and I think just because of that mentality they shouldn't be discarded.

I prefer Wolf's idea personally. But it's a good suggestion and both would be better than nothing.