Declined Separate parkour maps from actual deathrun maps on deathrun servers.

[Salem]

It baffles me why parkour maps where you have to have insane platforming skills share a server spot with deathrun maps. Some people like doing insane platforming stuff while other people prefer navigating obstacle courses with traps.

I just joined a deathurn server and nominated a fun map and got sworn at and told to leave the server. I was going to quite happily play along but a lot of people have sticks up their asses and think insanely stupidly difficult parkour maps are the ONLY maps that should be played instead of... a deathrun map.

I personally dislike parkour maps as they demand an insane amount of skills which is completely implausible except if you play these maps for like 24 hours a day. I want to chill out with a bunch of people and get through a deathrun map and laugh at all the silly things happening.

 

[revo]

Just don't play if you don't like the map.

 

[Salem]

My point is that obstacle course deathruns and parkour maps do not share the same genre and I don't think it's reasonable that when I join a deathrun server, wanting to play a deathrun map, that I should have the entire server bitching and moaning because I've nominated a deathrun map. It'd be like complaining someone's ordered pizza in a pizza restaurant, no you should get hot n spicy wings instead!!

"Just don't play if you don't like the map" but this is a DEATHRUN server. There is no chill on a parkour map, you just have to make all these insane jumps and if you make a single mistakes, whoops you're sitting watching other people play for 20 minutes.

I would like to restate: Why should I have people bitch and moan at me for wanting to play deathrun on a deathrun server?

 

[Salem]

I have no problem with parkour maps in general - for those who enjoy playing them, fine! Why not set up a server where people can jump to their hearts content? Then they don't have to get shitty when the map changes to something they don't want to play.

Why does it happen almost every time I play now where I'm having fun playing on a deathrun server and WHOOPS suddenly it's been changed to an insanely difficult parkour map and suddenly all the fun is lost?

 

[sunstep]

In my opinion, parkour deathrun maps could have become its own game mode on tf2. But that's not the case. What's going on in reality is the fact that parkour deathrun maps have taken over the classic ones. Pretty much every map that comes out nowadays has parkour. Some maps are for the hardcore tryhards (dr_simulation), while some others have a moderate amount of parkour while still keeping the element of classic deathrun (dr_nighttown, yes this is totally a dr_nighttown advertisement). But believe me, classic deathrun maps are dead, and having a map with no parkour is very rare nowadays. Even if the server owner decided to create a separate deathrun server, it would be dead most of the time. No way this is happening, because I know how this suggestion looks like in the point of view of a server owner.

 

[Mushroom]

I personally disagree with this suggestion. There are only really 2 difficult parkour maps which were designed to be challenging, those being Simulacrum and Cybertower, you need to practice those maps if you want to have a good experience. Other parkour maps such as Division, Pq or Origin weren't rėally designed to have difficult parkour sections so if you die on those maps that is your own fault. Not to mention that maps also have cooldowns so if there is a map you dislike, then just wait it out and once it's played, it wont be getting picked for several map rounds.

 

[sunstep]

I have no problem with parkour maps in general - for those who enjoy playing them, fine! Why not set up a server where people can jump to their hearts content? Then they don't have to get shitty when the map changes to something they don't want to play.

Why does it happen almost every time I play now where I'm having fun playing on a deathrun server and WHOOPS suddenly it's been changed to an insanely difficult parkour map and suddenly all the fun is lost?

Whether they decide to create a new deathrun server with classic maps only is up to the mods, admins and owner. But to me, it seems unlikely that it will happen. They know a server like that wouldn't be active and for them, it wouldn't be worth the effort going through which maps are classic, which have parkour but is not too hard. A parkour map being hard or not is entirely subjective as well. Who would define if a map has too much parkour to be excluded from the classic maps only server? To you, this seems like a simple suggestion, but it's not that black and white.

 

[Salem]

I can see that I'm going to be overruled since nobody else seems to see the problem I see in this. Fine. Alternate suggestion; Have a set day of the week for certain kinds of parkour maps. I dunno.

I would like to restate for a third time that I do not think it is reasonable that when I join a deathrun server to play a deathrun map, that like six different people go WAH DON'T NOMINATE THAT MAP IT SUX CUZ ITS NOT HARDCORE ENOUGH WHY'D YOU JOIN THIS SERVER FUCKIN DO SOME PARKOUR OR LEAVE

map cooldowns don't work since there's like over a dozen of these maps which people will just jump to next, and difficulty is subjective. only 'two' hard parkour maps? Imagine playing Super Mario Galaxy except it's like 100 times harder and when you die you have to wait 15 minutes. Yeah that's real fun.

 

[sunstep]

Alternate suggestion; Have a set day of the week for certain kinds of parkour maps. I dunno.

Blackwonder would die immediately with a suggestion like that. Do you really think they would approve from an owner's or admin's point of view?

I would like to restate for a third time that I do not think it is reasonable that when I join a deathrun server to play a deathrun map, that like six different people go WAH DON'T NOMINATE THAT MAP IT SUX CUZ ITS NOT HARDCORE ENOUGH WHY'D YOU JOIN THIS SERVER FUCKIN DO SOME PARKOUR OR LEAVE

I understand what you mean, but that's just how people on the internet are. They think the world actually cares about their opinions. Anyway, you will find the same behavior pretty much everywhere on every tf2 server. The truth is that the majority of the players are fine with parkour maps, and server owners rarely listen to the minority. Changing things for the majority of the players to satisfy the minority of the players (and at the same time dissatisfy the majority) would be unacceptable for the server owner, as it would impact the servers performance.

Honestly, the best thing you can do is just to accept the challenge and adapt to parkour.

 

[Salem]

I can see even stating this and trying to defend this point has been an incredible waste of my time. I just hope I can continue to enjoy actual deathrun maps on these servers in the future.

 

[Jacob303]

Get good kiddo

 

[Zaty]

There's 2 things I'd like to comment about this suggestion because it caught my interest.

The first one being the separate parkour deathrun maps from normal deathrun maps, personally that is something I would also like to have happen aswell but as sunstep mentioned, it would most likely be dead most of the time. What I would've liked was if there was actually a plugin specifically designed for these parkour deathrun maps where there's no activator but it plays out like if it was arena aswell and the goal would be to just reach the end of the map, but unfortunately as far as I know, no one is working on such plugin, forcing these parkour maps to be on normal deathrun.

Now the second thing I'd like to comment on is when you said you joined a deathrun server and got cursed on for nominating a map. Now I'll be honest, as someone who was there when that happened I'll admit I was one of those people, except I didn't curse at you, I simply stated "Then why join in the first place" after you commented on someone for saying playstation is not good and saying it's better than the map we were playing (which I can't really disagree because I also enjoy playstation). My assumption is that you seemed to be just complaining about the map because it's too hard which was reasonable since it wasn't made for everyone and that led to people to just curse at you and tell you to leave because they're too obsessed with the map to the point they'll defend it even if you just complain about it one single bit, but at the same time you joined when the map was on which usually I would say it's better to sit out the map and wait until something you actually enjoy playing shows up.
My point is that you were actually in the right here and they (me included because I do feel like I was part of it in a way) had no reason to start mocking you for disliking a map that you're not able to play or enjoy, but at the same time you should've expected that since the map was on for a reason, because the majority actually enjoys these parkour deathrun maps.

With that said,
Have a nice day.

 

[sunstep]

The first one being the separate parkour deathrun maps from normal deathrun maps, personally that is something I would also like to have happen aswell but as sunstep mentioned, it would most likely be dead most of the time. What I would've liked was if there was actually a plugin specifically designed for these parkour deathrun maps where there's no activator but it plays out like if it was arena aswell and the goal would be to just reach the end of themap, but unfortunately as far as I know, no one is working on such plugin, forcing these parkour maps to be on normal deathrun.

My interest lays mostly with your first comment. I think it would be great too to have a separate parkour game mode. No weapons, no activator etc. But the problem now is that even the parkour maps are made specifically for deathrun. I know that source engine's limits aren't the best, so traps and activator area would only waste edicts and reduces the amount of brushes you can place, for nothing because they would be useless in a parkour game mode. Since I started coding plugins for servers (still a beginner) I could maybe TRY to develop something and maybe even revolve my entire server around this game mode. But note that I only do this kind of stuff as hobby. That includes coding plugins, editing tf2 maps and even running servers. Since college is around the corner, I can't guarantee anything, in fact I'm not making promises because I know I will prioritize college over some hobbies. An issue would be that there will be no maps if a plugin like that ever existed, so it would also require edits of current maps or contributors that would create maps for the new game mode.

 

[worMatty]

I know I sound like a broken record but it's platforming, not parkour.

Some great points in this thread and a lot of rational discussion. It's good to see. However I think you have overstated your case a bit, @Salem. People disagreeing with you does not make it pointless, but I empathise with your frustration.

There is definitely discussion warranted about the future of the game mode. I think most people don't want to see it split up into multiple modes, or for maps to evolve into activator-less experiences because they are fairly souless, unsociable, personal experiences where there's really no reason to run them on a server with other people. A lot of players derive enjoyment from fucking around with their friends. I theorise that's partly why TF2 deathrun is still going and CSS and GMod seem to have died.

Yet the problem remains that people who want to make automated experiences are limited by the requirement of inserting manual traps. It's a bit of a dilemma. I think we find a good balance at the moment with manual modes and auto modes, but map designers need to understand they are not building for single players of high skill, they are building for up to 31 reds of varying skill levels, so those expert movements like strafe jumps and surfing will be a hard stop for most players. Alternative routes with a balanced effort requirement are a good approach, but most people just build what comes to mind and don't plan things.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

I sympathize with your plight but unfortunately there's no real way to achieve any sort of separation of the two map types that won't also kill the server(s).
Declining due to votes, I'm afraid you'll just have to nominate and hope the DR crew are feeling charitable.

I just joined a deathurn server and nominated a fun map and got sworn at and told to leave the server.

Since apparently a good amount of you joined the forums to vote bomb this, this sort of hostility is uncalled for. If I see any evidence of this behaviour in the future the offenders will be punished.