Declined Revisiting Bhopping in VSH LR (Jailbreak)

[10000 Cold Knights]

A continuation of the conversation in Discord. It's been about a year since bhop was removed, and I confess that the LR just feels...bland without it. A few staff (and most of the regulars) seem to want it back, so I'm making this in the hopes that we can give it another chance, while going with Cowboy's suggestion to disable the Dead Ringer. JB maps simply aren't balanced properly for a vsh mode, health and ammo are too scarce even with the plugin adding extras to the cell area. Without a method to quickly traverse the map the game feels really slow, especially on larger ones like Casuarina and Bootcamp. If it's still horrible we can revert it and make more nuanced changes, but I personally think it deserves one more chance, it was scapegoated for the dead ringer and massive reserve ammo L'etranger.
EDIT: The Rocket+Sticky Jumper need to go as well if this gets readded, too many shenanigans there.

 

[est]

I feel like you’re forgetting why it was removed in the first place. While every single point you have is valid in every way.. it was just way too op. Take a trolldeir for example. They can just build b hop all game then what can the hale do at that point? nothing. It’s not like the super jump gives you even 1/10th of the forward momentum as the rocket jumper. Hale can’t do anything against a super sonic soldier jumping around the map. Sure it may give the LR life again it would just completely imbalance it, again.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

I feel like you’re forgetting why it was removed in the first place. While every single point you have is valid in every way.. it was just way too op. Take a trolldeir for example. They can just build b hop all game then what can the hale do at that point? nothing. It’s not like the super jump gives you even 1/10th of the forward momentum as the rocket jumper. Hale can’t do anything against a super sonic soldier jumping around the map. Sure it may give the LR life again it would just completely imbalance it, again.

The rocket jumper can (and should) be disabled if we bring bhop back, it already is in like every existing vsh server rn. As for normal gunboats jumping, they have to go for health+ammo eventually, you can cut them off that way.

 

[est]

The rocket jumper can (and should) be disabled if we bring bhop back, it already is in like every existing vsh server rn. As for normal gunboats jumping, they have to go for health+ammo eventually, you can cut them off that way.

Even with the rocket jumper disabled every class in the game is more than capable (with enough time) to build up a b hop fast enough for the hale to have no chance. disabling the rocket jumper would help, yes, but overall not really.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

Even with the rocket jumper disabled every class in the game is more than capable (with enough time) to build up a b hop fast enough for the hale to have no chance. disabling the rocket jumper would help, yes, but overall not really.

Outside of having something to ramp off of like on supermario or minecraft, hale can reach those speeds faster than reds can though, super jump is free bhop momentum.

 

[est]

Outside of having something to ramp off of like on supermario or minecraft, hale can reach those speeds faster than reds can though, super jump is free bhop momentum.

Very true. My fingers are tired from typing on this damned phone but i don’t really think there is much more that needs to be said. Let’s leave it to the vote and see what happens. All though if it were to be added i want to second 10k by saying that the rocket jumper has got to go. And the dead ringer? sure it’s annoying but it’s only that. it’s not unfair, just an inconvenience.

 

[Sargentman16]

eeeerrrrruuuhhhh euehhgmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Yeah add it back, who tf cares if it was luxury because normal VSH didn't have it (let me tell you nobody). It makes the game mode more fast paced and IN MY OPINION more enjoyable. Again Deadringer can just be removed, and to the people complaining about rocket jumping trolldiers, they aren't invincible a lot of them fuck up frequently and you can just cut them off and catch them, especially with hales super jump allowing him to pick up bhop speed quickly. And to those complaining about bhopping hales *cough *cough *comet Simply a skill issue, they don't have to remove something completely just because you can't break a mans ankles going at mach 10.

 

[Benedevil]

I personally don’t want to put time into a small subset of an overall bigger gamemode.
Either have bhop or don’t

if anyone wants to modify it. You can get the source code from me

 

[Dee]

So you're trying to tell me that it's a better idea to remove a bunch of weapons and playstyles just so we can add some unbalanced mechanic in a gamemode that otherwise doesn't need it?

What's next? Remove hale's ability to superjump? Remove spies from being able to backstab at all?

 

[Peter]

As Sarge mentioned I don't like bhop as it gives Hales who know how to bhop and use their super jump complete dominance. The super jump easily becomes 10 times stronger so getting HHH is annoying.

I'm well aware that people who know how to bhop like bhopping (it's fun) but people who don't know how to bhop just get frustrated and normally it's only the regulars who can properly bhop.

I think the main issue with the gamemode is how people camp in minigames, delay by running away or hiding, and insta killing hales with tele traps etc. So, if we were to fix something that slows down the pace of the gamemode, I think solving these issues should come first.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

So you're trying to tell me that it's a better idea to remove a bunch of weapons and playstyles just so we can add some unbalanced mechanic in a gamemode that otherwise doesn't need it?

The weapons and playstyles themselves are what's causing problems, the mechanic imo is fine. It's fine for every other LR.

As Sarge mentioned I don't like bhop as it gives Hales who know how to bhop and use their super jump complete dominance. The super jump easily becomes 10 times stronger so getting HHH is annoying.

All the reds have access to bhop as well. Demo and soldier can go just as fast as hale, and as was mentioned in the last thread, you can slow the hale down with knockback. HHH does lose out on a lot, but I'd like to point out that teleport is much stronger than normal due to the layout of jb maps, and as such he's still one of the best hales to sniff out hiding players.

I'm well aware that people who know how to bhop like bhopping (it's fun) but people who don't know how to bhop just get frustrated and normally it's only the regulars who can properly bhop.

Removing bhop from just vsh does nothing though, when its still an integral part of the rest of the server. They'll have to learn it regardless of whether its enabled here specifically or not, if they don't find bhop fun they'll likely just dc before ever seeing a hale round.

I think the main issue with the gamemode is how people camp in minigames, delay by running away or hiding, and insta killing hales with tele traps etc. So, if we were to fix something that slows down the pace of the gamemode, I think solving these issues should come first.

There's always going to be people goofing off in the lr, not really much we can do to change that. Bhop would make finding them quicker though.

I personally don’t want to put time into a small subset of an overall bigger gamemode.
Either have bhop or don’t

if anyone wants to modify it. You can get the source code from me

I can respect that. This is by no means a time sensitive thing either, jb's not exactly going anywhere.

 

[Benedevil]

Seems to not have much support.
Thanks for the suggestion!