Declined Remove/Change No Camping in VSH

[Ash Shaw]

Our current VSH rule over camping is pretty uncompromising regardless of the map played on/nature of defensive and support classes. I'd like to either change it to make it more applicable or remove the rule entirely.

A few situations/tactics that red players may use that come mind which could technically could be considered camping are such as...
• Any engineer building a sentry in any inclosed area and staying near their sentry for protection as well as reducing their sentries sightline.
• Any players standing next to an engineer dispensor/sentry for protection.
• Anyone who plays heavy and stays in an inclosed room for their own limited sightline.
• Any demo who sticky traps an incloses room for maximum damage due to the limited door enterence area.
• Any medic who decides to pocket heal any of the classes above doing any of the actions above in a limited enclosed area.
• Any sniper being a sniper.
• Being the last few or final player alive on red team.

Scout, soldier and maybe spy are objectively the only classes punished for using a camping strategies due to their unique class limitations.

Personally I am an advocate of removing the rule entirely since its applications matter entirely to the map/and the class limitations they are enforced on.

With that said, if anyone else has any revisal proposals that can apply towards the entire gamemode universally i'd love to see what VSH players think.

 

[Butlër]

Removing it from red I agree with. As things are currently it could be considered discriminatory towards Scout, Soldier and Spy players as you have mentioned. In my opinion it doesn't make sense for the rule to exist if it's realistically only going to affect 3 classes when it's meant to affect every class.

However I don't think Hale should be allowed to camp a room and wait for their rage and teleport (in the case of HHH) to charge up. Hence why I'm against it being removed completely. A camping hale just delays the whole round, annoying the rest of the players, especially the ones that have to wait for ages to play again due to a camping hale catching them off guard and killing them.

 

[Ash Shaw]

However I don't think Hale should be allowed to camp a room and wait for their rage and teleport (in the case of HHH) to charge up. Hence why I'm against it being removed completely.

Sounds like delaying to me which already is a rule mostly applicable to Hale.

I'm not removing the two other rules we have which are

No Delaying
No Being Friendly (Which causes Delaying)

 

[PanYo]

Hi, regular reservoir player here. I'm going to be honest Ash Shaw, you are asking the impossible from these people, because it's something they have put inside of their mindset when it comes to playing as a red or as hale. Removing the rule from the gamemode allows the player to camp and not play the game at all. It completely takes away the whole point of the gamemode if a player is camping throughout the entire round. It also counts as delaying if the player has been camping the one spot, on and on. I have seen way too many people camp in one spot and not go somewhere else because they're too "afraid" of either losing or moving somewhere else because of something petty. If you were to change it though, the real question is, what would it be and how would it affect the players/gamemode? So yes, I am against taking away this rule.
I've also asked about taking away thirdperson from VSH too but its in another forum. If you want to see it, it's in here.

 

[Ash Shaw]

So yes, I am against taking away this rule.

The rule as it is right now contridicts what you have in your moderator app @PanYo

I don't even disagree with your specific punishment exceptions
No camping:
Classes that are allowed to Camp: Engineer and Sniper (Main Campers)
But as the rules are currently there aren't exceptions for any class.

 

[PanYo]

The rule as it is right now contridicts what you have in your moderator app

Yes, you are correct but Seraphina corrected me on what is wrong and what is right.

But as the rules are currently there aren't exceptions for any class.

That is correct, but due to classes being support from afar, it shouldn't really be a problem for that specific class to be there. If the rules have a problem for that specific class, it basically takes away their role and they are basically non-playable (Engineer and Sniper). You minus well take away that class from VSH then.

Removing it from red I agree with.

I'm starting to agree with Butler now. I get and understand what you're trying to say since there is a whole confusion about it but maybe taking it away from the reds wouldn't be a bad thing. Although, I'm pretty sure the reds are most likely gonna abuse it now.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

Read Me - Saxton Hale Rules - IN DEPTH Details

I'd like the admins to read this thread and suggest some changes if they thought of any, and tell us what they disagree about. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Since benedover deleted some thread that i wrote a whole lots of shit in about vsh rules, not knowing that i had some shit there, it doesn't matter...

blackwonder.tf

^Elaboration on the no camping rule and the difference between camping and delaying. The thread is quite old, but I believe that in itself proves how well our current system works.

I will always be against changing or removing any rule without it having some sort of major flaw, and I don't really see that present here. I also have faith that, unlike our Jailbreak players, the VSH community can think for themselves and don't need everything spelled out for them.

 

[Chris TCC]

The rule will remain, but clarification will be added as per 10k's reply.