Pending Proposal to Rework the Battalion's Backup on 100% Crits Servers

[CRHalby]

Please refer to the linked PDF document for my argument.

 

[condom_fish]

I second this

 

[Ash Shaw]

Personally x1,x-1,x1 shouldn't be patched for "fairness" in my opinion for the same reason that RTD Powerplay isn't removed from Classwars. The same reason that RTD Godmode isn't removed from Deathrun. The same reason the gunboats on x1000 aren't removed even after giving you max overheal making you unkillable.

Unfairness is fun

 

[condom_fish]

While unfairness is fun there is a line to where something is too op to even allow fun. The battalions is TOO op on crits. A player can just sot at tower and shoot rockets onto the enemy’s base. This allows battalions to fully charge in less then a minute. Battalions also cripples damage from any class making it almost impossible to kill the soldier without uber or vacc. As shown in the data recorded Battalions reduces a charged crit from sniper by over 75%.

 

[CRHalby]

Personally x1,x-1,x1 shouldn't be patched for "fairness" in my opinion for the same reason that RTD Powerplay isn't removed from Classwars. The same reason that RTD Godmode isn't removed from Deathrun. The same reason the gunboats on x1000 aren't removed even after giving you max overheal making you unkillable.

Unfairness is fun

In regards to RTD, that is a ‘luck’ based feature. You’re not guaranteed to roll the better perks as opposed to the bad ones, which is what makes it balanced. If everyone only ever rolled Godmode or Powerplay, then there would be a problem.

For x1000, I have no defense for that. At this point, I just expect to go into those servers and see unkillable enemies because of how the game mode is.

In some cases, yes, unfairness is fun. In most cases, unfairness is only fun for the person benefitting from it, which in my opinion leads to a toxic gameplay cycle. Crits is a fun game mode because of the fast-paced gameplay loop and lack of thought put in to playing, which is why having an item that breaks that loop doesn’t fit fit.

 

[condom_fish]

There needs to be at least some nerf to it or else a team with 2-3 soldiers with battalions who know what they are doing could completely prevent the opposing team from being able to even leave their spawn.

 

[crikey]

100% crits is an unbalanced game mode at its core, and anyone who says it isn't is kidding themselves. There is no point trying to change things when it is not needed. Just get good at the game.

 

[CRHalby]

100% crits is an unbalanced game mode at its core, and anyone who says it isn't is kidding themselves. There is no point trying to change things when it is not needed. Just get good at the game.

‘Just get good at the game’ makes me believe you didn’t read the proposal

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

As tempting as that last line is, Navy will just find something else to annoy players with. He clearly has nothing better to do.
Regarding the suggestion itself, I don't think outright banning BB is a good idea in a mode that's been historically dominated by hitscan classes. We should be cautious about removing anything that would make a class like sniper even stronger than they already are.
I think simply nerfing the BB build rate would be a better compromise, to make soldiers have to actually earn their resistances instead of basically getting a free charge every time they land like 2 rockets.

 

[CRHalby]

As tempting as that last line is, Navy will just find something else to annoy players with. He clearly has nothing better to do.
Regarding the suggestion itself, I don't think outright banning BB is a good idea in a mode that's been historically dominated by hitscan classes. We should be cautious about removing anything that would make a class like sniper even stronger than they already are.
I think simply nerfing the BB build rate would be a better compromise, to make soldiers have to actually earn their resistances instead of basically getting a free charge every time they land like 2 rockets.

I agree, I think nerfing the item would be a better comprise. However, I think removing the crit immunity or damage reduction buff instead would be more helpful.

 

[crikey]

‘Just get good at the game’ makes me believe you didn’t read the proposal

I did, and I didn't like it, just get good

 

[condom_fish]

Ye old fabled "get good" response for an opinion you dont like.

 

[hsuna]

I did, and I didn't like it, just get good

Except there's no getting good, and there's no skill check with an item like this. The only real way to truly deal with it is to run away, which makes no sense in a gamemode involving instant respawn and at the root of its basis, deathmatch-like gameplay. Cowardice is ultimately not fun and not the reason a large portion of people play this gamemode.

You could equate a soldier using this item as being similar to rolling lucky sandvich every some tens of seconds; both ultimately tank up the player to the point of requiring (excessive) skillful gameplay to win, or multiple lives of fighting and/or multiple people to attack in some coordinated fashion (with Battalion's Backup being significantly harder to kill). I don't see how you can argue get good to the equivalent of an RTD roll you are guaranteed every few seconds if you simply play safe. "Kill him first" isn't a good argument either with soldier's ability to rain down rockets from the tower and then hide for a few seconds waiting for splash damage or predicted directs to hit and build charge.

As tempting as that last line is, Navy will just find something else to annoy players with. He clearly has nothing better to do.
Regarding the suggestion itself, I don't think outright banning BB is a good idea in a mode that's been historically dominated by hitscan classes. We should be cautious about removing anything that would make a class like sniper even stronger than they already are.
I think simply nerfing the BB build rate would be a better compromise, to make soldiers have to actually earn their resistances instead of basically getting a free charge every time they land like 2 rockets.

I do agree with the sentiment of sniper's dominance, except for the fact that typically no one uses this item so changing it would mean nothing except for the few who run it and ruin the fun the gamemode provides. I would be willing to argue that a soldier with a good rollout can pick out any sniper regardless of where they are on the map, but I do see your point.

All in all, I support both Halby's original proposal or 10k's modified change; at the bare minimum, I believe the anti-crit aspect should be removed entirely. With the damage negation line persisting, I think it will offer a unique strategy for soldiers to help them stay alive in a generally hit-scan dominated gamemode as 10k mentioned.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

I feel like taking away BB's resistance or crit immunity is a bit too harsh. While not as much as something like UU or x1000, crits are still a power fantasy game mode and we should try and preserve that aspect when balancing things. We can always look at it again in the future, but for right now setting the damage meter to somewhere between 1200-1500 should keep it as a strong option for soldiers while making it less spammable in combat.

 

[condom_fish]

Yeah I mean since doubling it is probably the best thing we are going to get. Its better then nothing for now.

 

[CRHalby]

I feel like taking away BB's resistance or crit immunity is a bit too harsh. While not as much as something like UU or x1000, crits are still a power fantasy game mode and we should try and preserve that aspect when balancing things. We can always look at it again in the future, but for right now setting the damage meter to somewhere between 1200-1500 should keep it as a strong option for soldiers while making it less spammable in combat.

I can respect your views as well as your compromised change. Thank you for your input on this!

 

[crikey]

Except there's no getting good, and there's no skill check with an item like this. The only real way to truly deal with it is to run away, which makes no sense in a gamemode involving instant respawn and at the root of its basis, deathmatch-like gameplay. Cowardice is ultimately not fun and not the reason a large portion of people play this gamemode.

You could equate a soldier using this item as being similar to rolling lucky sandvich every some tens of seconds; both ultimately tank up the player to the point of requiring (excessive) skillful gameplay to win, or multiple lives of fighting and/or multiple people to attack in some coordinated fashion (with Battalion's Backup being significantly harder to kill). I don't see how you can argue get good to the equivalent of an RTD roll you are guaranteed every few seconds if you simply play safe. "Kill him first" isn't a good argument either with soldier's ability to rain down rockets from the tower and then hide for a few seconds waiting for splash damage or predicted directs to hit and build charge.

Just deflect his rockets as pyro ez.

In all seriousness, regardless of what you type, I'm still against your suggestion.

 

[condom_fish]

Just deflect his rockets as pyro ez.

In all seriousness, regardless of what you type, I'm still against your suggestion.

We literally found a solution that doesnt remove the Battalions. There is no point to even saying “im against this just cause” because then it just shows a clear bias on something that a chunk of the community has an issue with.

 

[condom_fish]

This sounds more like a personal Bias against Soona or Halby and not a justified reasoning for not wanting to even touch an aspect of Battalions that makes it more balanced in 100% crits.

 

[crikey]

This sounds more like a personal Bias against Soona or Halby and not a justified reasoning for not wanting to even touch an aspect of Battalions that makes it more balanced in 100% crits.

You know nothing about me lol. I have no beef with Soona or Halby, it is just a suggestion that I am against. It ain't a bias, its my own opinion. It ain't that deep.