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Jailbreak Blues!

Puggy

Sufficiently Lethal

Pugless

Offline
Joined
Jan 22, 2017
Messages
128
Yes, I know most people on tf2 will be dumb, but the more we get a stupid blue that doesn't know rules is get pretty old. They just mess up a lot. That's ok, but they seem to just suck at everything. So what should we do? I think make people take 1 a iq test then take a test a the jb rules. this can help with mfks too. since most people that care will not just take a test and then mfk.
 

Cowboy

Spectacularly Lethal
Joined
May 29, 2020
Messages
201
So here's my opinion overall.

I think a level of patience should be warranted towards players due to the overall complexity of the rules of Jailbreak. I am not calling for rules being changed in any sort of way but i think a level of empathy should come from players when dealing with a warden or blue who may be new to the server or the gamemode or even making a simple mistake.

Wardens and blues have to deal with people screaming in chat, people talking over them and dealing with freeday spies. Instead of trying to "one-up" somebody by yelling at them about them breaking rules, let's try educate them nicely and remind them the proper way to play. I believe you will get a better reaction when going about it.

TL:DR: instead of being mad at a warden, try to tell them what they did wrong in a respectful manner and you will get a positive reaction.
 
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Puggy

Sufficiently Lethal

Pugless

Offline
Joined
Jan 22, 2017
Messages
128
So here's my opinion overall.

I think a level of patience should be warranted towards players due to the overall complexity of the rules of Jailbreak. I am not calling for rules being changed in any sort of way but i think a level of empathy should come from players when dealing with a warden or blue who may be new to the server or the gamemode or even making a simple mistake.

Wardens and blues have to deal with people screaming in chat, people talking over them and dealing with freeday spies. Instead of trying to "one-up" somebody by yelling at them about them breaking rules, let's try educate them nicely and remind them the proper way to play. I believe you will get a better reaction when going about it.

TL:DR: instead of being mad at a warden, try to tell them what they did wrong in a respectful manner and you will get a positive reaction.
the problem is you can tell them to go read the rules then they still dont know anything thats why they need to stay red to learn because u cant really get tban or anything like that
 

10000 Cold Knights

Sentinel
Staff Member
Admin
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
5,791
The mic check plugin is annoying enough as it is. No one would ever be able to join blue in time for first day freeday if they have to use their mic and do some rules test every map change.
 

Blizz

Notably Dangerous

Avi

Offline
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
110
You're very broad with what exactly is a problem. It's sales pitching 101. Have a clear goal with details. An IQ test would be flawed because there'd be no real practice needed before being able to join the guard team. A written test is not enough. It's like only taking a written driver's test with no hands on experience and then going onto a freeway during rush hour. What material would be on the test? How would they answer the questions? How long would they be able to take it? Would it be constantly adapted to prevent cheating? Would the other players be muted so you can't ask for help?

Yes, there are flaws and changes need to be made. I agree entirely. For instance, the reds aren't muted when the round starts and new players can just join the guard team easily. And that's normal. Flaws keep re-emerging and they need to be corrected. It's just a natural cycle of maintenance.

Here's some ideas:
- Have the reds muted for at least 30 seconds when the round starts
- Establish a minimum number of Jailbreak alive time before being allowed to join the guard team for the first time


Reds muted for 30 seconds:
I don't have any doubts that you've been in a situation where you're trying to give your first order and 3 reds are overtalking you. A simple solution would be for the warden to have the ability to mute all reds, but wardens could easily exploit it. Once the first order is established, then it's much easier to establish order with reds in the cells or on a line (at least) instead of having to deal with reds already scattered across the map some with ammo. While you can kill people for overtalking the warden including guards, it does not solve the problem of the reds already being scattered with no direction or sense of what to do besides run.

If the plugin is broken, then it will need to be fixed or at least explain what's causing the bug (of course don't share the full code). Open communication (to an extent) allows for more feedback thus correcting issues more efficiently.

Minimum alive hours before joining guard:
I can see this for reducing 2 problems: alt mfkers and new players taken by surprise.

Let's be real, players, especially younger players, join blw jailbreak servers without any idea that they are any different than that of wonderland or panda community. It's not an instinct that they generally have after joining the game mode for the first time. I certainly didn't get that instantly many years ago. It's like moving from a country where something is legal to a new country where it's illegal and vice versa. Combined with how guards get crits, it will take time to learn the nuts and bolts of the blw jb servers.

That's why I propose a minimum number of alive hours before being allowed to join the guard team. My idea is at least 30 minutes of time being alive before being allowed to join the guard team. The reason for time being alive is that they are actively tuning in rather than just suiciding at the start of each round and watching a 30 minute video essay while the timer expires. Those who are actually committed to playing on guard would invest in the time to at least have some degree of familiarity with the server's systems. It can also help reduce mfk alts that were just created solely to join the server to mass freekill on guard.

The issue of mfkers and naive new players joining guard will never be 100% solved. But if they can be reduced, then I'm all for it.
 
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cappie

Strange

cappie

Offline
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
11
So here's my opinion overall.

I think a level of patience should be warranted towards players due to the overall complexity of the rules of Jailbreak. I am not calling for rules being changed in any sort of way but i think a level of empathy should come from players when dealing with a warden or blue who may be new to the server or the gamemode or even making a simple mistake.

Wardens and blues have to deal with people screaming in chat, people talking over them and dealing with freeday spies. Instead of trying to "one-up" somebody by yelling at them about them breaking rules, let's try educate them nicely and remind them the proper way to play. I believe you will get a better reaction when going about it.

TL:DR: instead of being mad at a warden, try to tell them what they did wrong in a respectful manner and you will get a positive reaction.

Where I agree we should take more time to educate other players, rather than the toxic insults thrown at most bad blues, you also have to consider the red side of things. If someone doesn't read the rules and goes on red, the only player they are hurting is themself. In the case of being on blue, there can be many people's game they're screwing up because they didn't want to read the rules.

It puts a really bad taste in everyone's mouth when people that have been on red for one round want to be the warden because 9 times out of 10 they end up freekilling or breaking rules. (And 9 times out of 10 people get mad) Where I dont think its ok to be toxic, if you're a blue and you constantly get bombarded for 'being bad at blue', maybe take a break and stay on red for a bit, don't stay on blue out of spite. Observe the players people enjoy being on blue, read the rules while you're at it. You're not only going to make your game better but all the reds too ^^ <3
 

Blizz

Notably Dangerous

Avi

Offline
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
110
Where I agree we should take more time to educate other players, rather than the toxic insults thrown at most bad blues, you also have to consider the red side of things. If someone doesn't read the rules and goes on red, the only player they are hurting is themself. In the case of being on blue, there can be many people's game they're screwing up because they didn't want to read the rules.

It puts a really bad taste in everyone's mouth when people that have been on red for one round want to be the warden because 9 times out of 10 they end up freekilling or breaking rules. (And 9 times out of 10 people get mad) Where I dont think its ok to be toxic, if you're a blue and you constantly get bombarded for 'being bad at blue', maybe take a break and stay on red for a bit, don't stay on blue out of spite. Observe the players people enjoy being on blue, read the rules while you're at it. You're not only going to make your game better but all the reds too ^^ <3

Newer players, especially younger players, tend to not read the rules as it's not an instinct they can just develop quickly. Other JB servers have rules and functions that are different than that of Blackwonder. It also doesn't help that the UI for reading the JB rules is heavily flawed.

1591115568031.png


This is the page when you type "/rules" into chat. Notice how the different rules for the game modes are hard to see when scrolling up and down. It's grey text in front of a light gray background. Also, this is the full size of the window. I did not change it. I don't know if the dimensions can be changed. if it cannot, then it needs to be adjusted to accommodate for that (or at least create a new page specifically for the Source window).

I cannot blame anyone for not fully understanding the rules with how bad this UI is. It took me about a minute to find the sub-pages section while reading the rules and scrolling down. The sub-pages navigation bar needs to be legible to the point where it can be understood within seconds without squinting. A better approach would be to create a colorful navigation bar at the top of the page, highlighting which page you are on. Here's an example of a better UI for a navigation bar I made with CSS for my web design class (rendering error for the red lines):

1591117216036.png


It's an outdated conservative approach to expect people to type "/rules" and be able to understand it 100% quickly with just h1-h6 text size with the current navigation bar. A better approach would be to make it easier to navigate. It's important that the user can understand how to navigate through the page within the first 5 seconds. As for guards learning the rules, I proposed this earlier in the thread:
Minimum alive hours before joining guard:
I can see this for reducing 2 problems: alt mfkers and new players taken by surprise.

Let's be real, players, especially younger players, join blw jailbreak servers without any idea that they are any different than that of wonderland or panda community. It's not an instinct that they generally have after joining the game mode for the first time. I certainly didn't get that instantly many years ago. It's like moving from a country where something is legal to a new country where it's illegal and vice versa. Combined with how guards get crits, it will take time to learn the nuts and bolts of the blw jb servers.

That's why I propose a minimum number of alive hours before being allowed to join the guard team. My idea is at least 30 minutes of time being alive before being allowed to join the guard team. The reason for time being alive is that they are actively tuning in rather than just suiciding at the start of each round and watching a 30 minute video essay while the timer expires. Those who are actually committed to playing on guard would invest in the time to at least have some degree of familiarity with the server's systems. It can also help reduce mfk alts that were just created solely to join the server to mass freekill on guard.

The issue of mfkers and naive new players joining guard will never be 100% solved. But if they can be reduced, then I'm all for it.

Lastly, "/jbrules" does not redirect you to anywhere. Even if it did, it's not instinctive to type that out instead of "/rules". There's nothing in the chat or in white text in the middle of the screen to remind the user what to type into chat. It would be better to not only have that reminder in chat in a different legible color like this, but also to display basic rules like "Guards must stay with warden unless granted permission" or "Overtalking can get you killed" that are unique to the blw JB servers. Display them repeatedly to staple that into the user's mind.
 

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Sonny

Wicked Nasty

lumi

Online
Joined
Sep 24, 2018
Messages
327
Newer players, especially younger players, tend to not read the rules as it's not an instinct they can just develop quickly. Other JB servers have rules and functions that are different than that of Blackwonder. It also doesn't help that the UI for reading the JB rules is heavily flawed.

View attachment 17611

This is the page when you type "/rules" into chat. Notice how the different rules for the game modes are hard to see when scrolling up and down. It's grey text in front of a light gray background. Also, this is the full size of the window. I did not change it. I don't know if the dimensions can be changed. if it cannot, then it needs to be adjusted to accommodate for that (or at least create a new page specifically for the Source window).

I cannot blame anyone for not fully understanding the rules with how bad this UI is. It took me about a minute to find the sub-pages section while reading the rules and scrolling down. The sub-pages navigation bar needs to be legible to the point where it can be understood within seconds without squinting. A better approach would be to create a colorful navigation bar at the top of the page, highlighting which page you are on. Here's an example of a better UI for a navigation bar I made with CSS for my web design class (rendering error for the red lines):

View attachment 17613

It's an outdated conservative approach to expect people to type "/rules" and be able to understand it 100% quickly with just h1-h6 text size with the current navigation bar. A better approach would be to make it easier to navigate. It's important that the user can understand how to navigate through the page within the first 5 seconds. As for guards learning the rules, I proposed this earlier in the thread:


Lastly, "/jbrules" does not redirect you to anywhere. Even if it did, it's not instinctive to type that out instead of "/rules". There's nothing in the chat or in white text in the middle of the screen to remind the user what to type into chat. It would be better to not only have that reminder in chat in a different legible color like this, but also to display basic rules like "Guards must stay with warden unless granted permission" or "Overtalking can get you killed" that are unique to the blw JB servers. Display them repeatedly to staple that into the user's mind.

Maybe there would be a command to toggle the reminders for experienced players?
 

Blizz

Notably Dangerous

Avi

Offline
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
110
Maybe there would be a command to toggle the reminders for experienced players?
With that option only being there for players who have at least a certain amount of alive playtime hours (not sure how much would be acceptable) so newer players can't disable it. Otherwise, that would defeat the point. And it would have to be alive hours for reasons I specified earlier.

EDIT: I would have no problem with that option only being there for donors. Newer players wouldn't give money to a gaming community they just found.
 

Cyveray

Spectacularly Lethal

Cyveray

Offline
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
207
Just add a menu that red people are allowed to vote which a warden their red wants.

Bad idea this system can easily be abused as a group of friends could join a server and constantly vote 1 warden or just shaft certain people from becoming warden. I seen some servers make it random every time even then it would still be dumb, I think the random warden thing is fine how it is personally and if someone wants to become warden they can just force.

Also why necro?
 

Lord Of Something

Positively Inhumane
Joined
Dec 25, 2019
Messages
380
I think the punishments for jailbreaking should be heavier, like doing an FK for the first time and only getting a warning, like, after the rules changed I don't have the patience to do reports anymore, and not everyone now knows the reports, I already thought about adding a voting system just for jb, but it won't work, already in a Fire system for bad wardens, anyway, the changes needed to make jb good without FK or MFK is not a reality in blw, because it will need many things that won't be done, and it will happen like on other servers, players will stop playing, like I did.
 

10000 Cold Knights

Sentinel
Staff Member
Admin
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
5,791
This is only half-true.
I think the punishments for jailbreaking should be heavier, like doing an FK for the first time and only getting a warning
The simple fact of the matter is that we are all human. We make mistakes. Even staff members aren't exempt from this, and if thats the case why should ordinary players be held to a perfect standard? Warnings need to be there. If you don't want your reports getting dismissed with a warning, you need to prove the accused player was doing something more disruptive to the server than simply freekilling a single individual.
after the rules changed I don't have the patience to do reports anymore,
This is a more accurate concern. In the push for leniency a couple of months ago, several reporters had action taken against them as part of stemming the tide of reports that was deemed to be causing problems. While this action was justified (the reporters in question were doing some seedy stuff on the side), it's also ostracized part of our playerbase, which runs counterpoint to the reason these changes were implemented.
I do wish that you stay with Blackwonder and encourage you to submit reports of people breaking rules, but if you're concerned about people you report getting off with warnings then I suggest you make sure that whoever you report is consistently causing problems.
 

Meowsler

Positively Inhumane
Joined
Aug 3, 2021
Messages
390
The mic check plugin is annoying enough as it is. No one would ever be able to join blue in time for first day freeday if they have to use their mic and do some rules test every map change.
This and the issue of most peoples internet speed anyways, they rarely load in fast enough and only maybe 1-5 people enjoy first day free day, and because it causes frustration for the other slower users, it might make a few of em leave too.
 

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