Closed Crits on Jailbreak. (Yup, THAT topic again)

[Cowboy]

Howdy Y'all, been a while since I've posted directly in the forums but i figured i'd give it a shot since this subject has been a hot topic on discord.

The opinions regarding the current state of crits and the health of the server has been discussed within the discord a few times now so i'd like to turn this thread into an opportunity for members to voice their opinion regarding this manner.

The Current Situation
Due to the current situation regarding Jailbreak's population drastically dwindling for the last couple of months, there's been some talk about some of the causes. Several members have claimed that it's due to the current season, while some have pointed towards the existence of crits and the lack of "counterplay" when it comes to them.

Now, what do you think? Is it time to experiment with potential changes? Or is the solution is to remain the same?

Feel free to voice your opinions in the discussion below,

And please, try to be civil.

10k please let me post ferrets in #general.

 

[Cammy]

I'd say it's because people have played it so much they're losing interest. It happened in Panda while I was there.
There's not enough new people taking an interest. If it were crits, the servers would've been abandoned long ago.
The alternate reason would be all the 'fun' players being slowly permabanned away from BLU or from the community as a whole as they cannot follow the rules, and taking their established friend groups with them to whatever community they decide to terrorise next.

 

[Tax Fraud]

We already tried a server with no crits. It failed to gain any traction and it was shut down. The current lack of players on jailbreak has nothing to do with the state of balance or plugins.

 

[Steve Harvey Oswald]

Have you guys considered that Jailbreak might just suck

 

[Hyped]

HI THERE I MIGHT HAVE SOME VIEWS TO SHARE.

Obviously the servers are dead and only active at certain hours compared to pretty much any community out there. The current crit changes are a temporary one month testing thing. Whenever I have personally visited the server the majority of people like the changes. Others can back me on that and it totally makes sense considering it benefits the majority of players (reds).

We already tried a server with no crits. It failed to gain any traction and it was shut down. The current lack of players on jailbreak has nothing to do with the state of balance or plugins.

Rinsing the same arguments don't help your point especially if they're so weak as hell. The main reason why those servers died are because they were independent servers rather than actual changes to pre-existing ones, that's not a good reason to not make change.

"No one will play blue"
People probably wont touch blue with a 10 foot pole because of the report system being abused.

Change is overall a good thing and while relying on the incoming player wave it would be really cool to capitalise on it, crits aren't the only thing off-putting compared to other communities so lets continue to make change rather than be stubborn on year old systems.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

People probably wont touch blue with a 10 foot pole because of the report system being abused.

Guess you hung out with those Aussies so long you started believing their hippie BS, huh?

10k please let me post ferrets in #general.

No ;p

I'd say it's because people have played it so much they're losing interest. It happened in Panda while I was there.
There's not enough new people taking an interest. If it were crits, the servers would've been abandoned long ago.
The alternate reason would be all the 'fun' players being slowly permabanned away from BLU or from the community as a whole as they cannot follow the rules, and taking their established friend groups with them to whatever community they decide to terrorise next.

Preach it brother.

Have you guys considered that Jailbreak might just suck

Still better than UU at least ;p

We already tried a server with no crits. It failed to gain any traction and it was shut down. The current lack of players on jailbreak has nothing to do with the state of balance or plugins.

Yes indeedy, 1.5x damage is only slightly better than what was previously implemented, and that system went dead after the hype went down. I suspect the only reason the same thing hasn't happened here is because US was the most popular JB server before the change.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

Here's some light reading as to why no crits is a bad idea btw https://blackwonder.tf/threads/mini-crits-in-jailbreak.23012/post-90089

 

[Hyped]

tarted believing their hippie BS, huh?

Shush.

Here's some light reading as to why no crits is a bad idea btw https://blackwonder.tf/threads/mini-crits-in-jailbreak.23012/post-90089

Past experiences haven't been proper solutions and this idea of it being a bad idea even though most servers don't have crits is just dumb.

 

[Cowboy]

Guess you hung out with those Aussies so long you started believing their hippie BS, huh?

While im not a fan of the AUS JB community as a whole, I think this is a short sighted comment when you have bene himself investigating reports and finding most of them not worthy of punishment. It's not just the Aussies who have a problem with the system, it's a large amount of the Jailbreak community in general who have problems with how reports are handled.

while this may be unrelated to the threads topic, i felt this should be addressed.

 

[Tax Fraud]

HI THERE I MIGHT HAVE SOME VIEWS TO SHARE.

Obviously the servers are dead and only active at certain hours compared to pretty much any community out there. The current crit changes are a temporary one month testing thing. Whenever I have personally visited the server the majority of people like the changes. Others can back me on that and it totally makes sense considering it benefits the majority of players (reds).

Rinsing the same arguments don't help your point especially if they're so weak as hell. The main reason why those servers died are because they were independent servers rather than actual changes to pre-existing ones, that's not a good reason to not make change.

"No one will play blue"
People probably wont touch blue with a 10 foot pole because of the report system being abused.

Change is overall a good thing and while relying on the incoming player wave it would be really cool to capitalise on it, crits aren't the only thing off-putting compared to other communities so lets continue to make change rather than be stubborn on year old systems.

We set up an independent server because popularity for Crits versus No Crits was evenly split. Changing the main server in order to appease half the community wouldn't be healthy. People who aren't active on forums wouldn't know why it was changed. A no crit server was supposed to be an experiment anyway, which failed. Your blanket, "Change is a good thing" statement doesn't apply when a large portion of the community voices its disapproval of removing crits. Time and time again "Removing Crits on JB" threads have been made and the votes swung in keeping crits favor.

Declined - JAILBREAK GUARD CRITS

its unfair give crits to guards because because the rebel players make a good strategy, they trick the guards, they get insede on the armory then he surprise the guards and die to a crit. The guards dont count the prisioners, let a prisioner escape and stay on the side of the warden the intire...

blackwonder.tf

Declined - A compromise for crits in Jailbreak

Critical hits for guards have been a debated topic before, I want to post a compromise. This is coming from a guy that only plays blue. We should have it so that critical hits have fall off damage (I don't know if this is possible coding wise). It keeps an (apparently) necessary tool for guards...

blackwonder.tf

Resolved - BlackWonderJB

i wish blackwonder jailbreak could make team Blu to not have crit because the red have 15% chance to rebell pls fix i hate it

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Warden being able to turn crits on/off

So I've been holding in on this idea for quite a while now but since we've had this discussion so many times I figured why not suggest it. Why can't the warden enable and disable crits? It would make life a lot easier if it's f.e war day and we could even unban some minigames like Gladiator or...

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Remove crits for blu in jb

I get that crits for blus in jb makes it easier for them to control the reds but I think it is a bit unfair for reds that want to rebel, when you get ammo as a red it makes it harder to fight blu's because they have crits, but if you would consider removing them it would make reds be able to...

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Give warden an option to disable crits, so cellwars/arena is more balanced

What do you think? I hate cellwars for many reason, but random crits is one of the main reasons. Giving warden an option to disable them would be a wonderful thing!

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Less The Crits on Blu JB

Well i see alot of people complaining on the chat they are saying 'THEY ARE SO LUCKY CUZ THEY HAVE CRITS' and 'NICE FUCKING BODYSHOT YOUR LUCKY CUZ YOU ARE IN BLU' well this is just inappropiate for the JB Servers so please lessen the crits 10% thank you for you're time

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Giving the blus minicrits instead of crits

A sniper dealing 45 dmg at long range consistently is not balanced. And i think giving the blus mini crits would make it more fair, as it still gives them a boost but they wont be as overpowered. Like with the sniper, at long range they deal 150 dmg without even being scoped in. Or when a...

blackwonder.tf

JB needs some tweeks

alright I mean its a fun game mode with a lot of cancer but thats not what we are discussing. what we are though is the jb maps need some major tweaks 1. half the time the open or close cells command is incompatible with older maps not a problem with all but some like the Mario maps and mostly...

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Make a petition to replace crits for mini crits on guards

Make a petition/vote so that the entire JB community can decide instead of just the admins making the decisions.

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Jailbreak Crits!!

Look crits suck like a lot and they suck a lot more with a mass freekiller. If we had mini crits or no crits then that would be so good. It would make less people die as fast so you can try and kill the mass freekiller and easier to rebel since you dont die from one body shot. it would make...

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Nerf Crits to Mini-Crits (Jailbreak)

Rebelling is harder on blackwonder than anywhere else. Veterans answer, “git gud” and newbies are discouraged. Mini-crits would still give the blue team an advantage, but not to the point where a single shot eliminates the majority of the classes.

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Remove the blu 100% crits, or make it mini-crits

Its so unfair when blu's can snipe you with a shotgun, and, with those crits the chances that someone gets freekilled by a rocket or a pipe, its really big, it just makes the game so unfair, and one time some blu, just threw a rocket at me, i was playing demoknight with the chargin targe, even...

blackwonder.tf

 

[Cowboy]

So I do want to make something entirely clear.

I do not want a poll or any definitive decisions to derive from this thread. This was not the meaning behind this thread, otherwise i would've posted it under Suggestions.

I for one am in support of crits remaining on the server and i have no plans on taking the side of the removal.

However, I believed that this thread could be a productive space to lay out our entire opinions with one another rather than the usual shouting match on discord.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

While im not a fan of the AUS JB community as a whole, I think this is a short sighted comment when you have bene himself investigating reports and finding most of them not worthy of punishment. It's not just the Aussies who have a problem with the system, it's a large amount of the Jailbreak community in general who have problems with how reports are handled.

View attachment 24886View attachment 24887

while this may be unrelated to the threads topic, i felt this should be addressed.

My comment may have been a bit harsh, I apologize. To elaborate without writing an essay on the issue, Hyped's position on reports is not management's position, Hyped knows the problems I have with his position, and I will not tolerate baseless slander directed at either reporters or the staff members who handle them, due to the actions of one individual.
That will be all, no need to derail the topic.

 

[RainbowRobb]

While im not a fan of the AUS JB community as a whole, I think this is a short sighted comment when you have bene himself investigating reports and finding most of them not worthy of punishment. It's not just the Aussies who have a problem with the system, it's a large amount of the Jailbreak community in general who have problems with how reports are handled.

View attachment 24886View attachment 24887

while this may be unrelated to the threads topic, i felt this should be addressed.

1. It is a shame Bene posted this in public, it is more complicated than that. His involvement is due to a falling player count, not because he is concerned that particular players weren't punished the way some would prefer.

2. A few days ago, I spent a hour on US JB where a bunch of aussies were playing, I believe you were there. Kat went warden, and people just began shouting on mic, over them. Even louder than usual, making it impossible for a round to happen. I typically wait before punishing anyone, and I ended up teambanning someone for being unwilling to be warden. When I teambanned them, the server errupted in "fucking mods" this and that. Another wave, a previously toxic player was on a blue and pressed a button a sweeper that killed half of red. I teambanned that blue and over the mic someone said they wanted to "hunt me down and slit my throat", this was followed my similar comments. Now, I am 33 with extremely thick skin; however, many of the staff are half my age, or younger. The staff should not have to deal with such behavior, they are volunteers. The problem is not that the majority of the punishments were unjust. It is that we do not often have multiple confident (not incompetent) staff on jb at the same time. I actually commented in our admin chat about it while I was on:

"A large amount of the Jailbreak community" have no intention of following any rules and are just there to shitpost on mic and troll the servers.

That being said, solutions are being actively discussed.

 

[Cammy]

A bad idea that would work if everyone agreed to stick with it: Make a schedule based around the active hours of each JB server to ensure that *someone* is available at any time during those active hours to respond to reqhelps/calladmins, or be in the server directly for a set duration before swapping out with another.

Obviously this wouldn't work as everyone has IRL things, and anything could happen at any time, but it's nice to believe it would be possible.

 

[RainbowRobb]

A bad idea that would work if everyone agreed to stick with it: Make a schedule based around the active hours of each JB server to ensure that *someone* is available at any time during those active hours to respond to reqhelps/calladmins, or be in the server directly for a set duration before swapping out with another.

Obviously this wouldn't work as everyone has IRL things, and anything could happen at any time, but it's nice to believe it would be possible.

Blackwonder was fortunate for several years. There happened to be a group of well-intentioned players who kept the servers operating, but they have moved on from tf2, and now we have to figure out how to correct it.

 

[crikey]

A bad idea that would work if everyone agreed to stick with it: Make a schedule based around the active hours of each JB server to ensure that *someone* is available at any time during those active hours to respond to reqhelps/calladmins, or be in the server directly for a set duration before swapping out with another.

Obviously this wouldn't work as everyone has IRL things, and anything could happen at any time, but it's nice to believe it would be possible.

Yeah no. I've been around in a server that ran like this mandating that someone had to be available at all time. All it caused was a load of stress as staff felt forced to do it in fear of getting demoted.

 

[Hyped]

People who aren't active on forums wouldn't know why it was changed. A no crit server was supposed to be an experiment anyway, which failed. Your blanket, "Change is a good thing" statement doesn't apply when a large portion of the community voices its disapproval of removing crits.

Dumb old polls representing an old player base are dumb and most people don’t even use the forums
People who don’t even play jailbreak anymore would take up a significant amount of the votes so that’s such a silly point to make. Why wouldn’t a change benefitting the MAJORITY of people be favoured by the majority?
basically polls aren’t a valid way of looking at a player base since it does not give an accurate picture of the servers wants.
I think Robbs right, back then we used to still have rulebreakers but we also had people who genuinely just wanted to play jailbreak but that doesn’t mean the some of the systems in place shouldn’t be changed.

 

[Cowboy]

1. It is a shame Bene posted this in public, it is more complicated than that. His involvement is due to a falling player count, not because he is concerned that particular players weren't punished the way some would prefer.

2. A few days ago, I spent a hour on US JB where a bunch of aussies were playing, I believe you were there. Kat went warden, and people just began shouting on mic, over them. Even louder than usual, making it impossible for a round to happen. I typically wait before punishing anyone, and I ended up teambanning someone for being unwilling to be warden. When I teambanned them, the server errupted in "fucking mods" this and that. Another wave, a previously toxic player was on a blue and pressed a button a sweeper that killed half of red. I teambanned that blue and over the mic someone said they wanted to "hunt me down and slit my throat", this was followed my similar comments. Now, I am 33 with extremely thick skin; however, many of the staff are half my age, or younger. The staff should not have to deal with such behavior, they are volunteers. The problem is not that the majority of the punishments were unjust. It is that we do not often have multiple confident (not incompetent) staff on jb at the same time. I actually commented in our admin chat about it while I was on:View attachment 24889

"A large amount of the Jailbreak community" have no intention of following any rules and are just there to shitpost on mic and troll the servers.

That being said, solutions are being actively discussed.

So firstly, I'd like to apologize for jumping to conclusions on the topic regarding the reports, I realize that this probably was desired to be a topic discussed among staff. However, I did appreciate Bene's transparency and it really excites me that you guys are actually not abandoning the gamemode and the servers by attempting to investigate problems and improve the server as a result. I actually would love if you guys communicated more with the JB community and help us get involved somehow in repopulating the servers. I know several regulars who would be willing to squat on the server in order to improve traction. Any way we can help as a community, we should be ready to do so.

As far as the behavior on the server, I am so used to the overall toxicity of the server that i just cope with it the best i can, I'm sorry that your experience was unsavory, I think Jailbreak can be a special experience with the right people on the server.

A bad idea that would work if everyone agreed to stick with it: Make a schedule based around the active hours of each JB server to ensure that *someone* is available at any time during those active hours to respond to reqhelps/calladmins, or be in the server directly for a set duration before swapping out with another.

I think adopting this strategy would pressure BLW to accept more JB staff applications which is a scary process since it's the hardest server to moderate and needs to have a pretty strong vetting system so we don't have to deal with staff who might not be ready for the position they were accepted into.

 

[Hyped]

I think adopting this strategy would pressure BLW to accept more JB staff applications which is a scary process since it's the hardest server to moderate

there are loads of JB staff that simply dont even do anything, 10K, Ze De Pao and Robb are the only members of staff I ever see on servers/ handle reports, so while a schedule is a bad idea, in general staff should be more active.

 

[RainbowRobb]

there are loads of JB staff that simply dont even do anything, 10K, Ze De Pao and Robb are the only members of staff I ever see on servers/ handle reports, so while a schedule is a bad idea, in general staff should be more active.

The majority of the staff are active. Just because they are not doing reports, does not mean they aren't helping on one of the 300 servers.

Also, this is not a job. Stating they should be more active is implying there is an expectation when one can't exist. It's really just jb. We have fairly consistent coverage for the other servers.