Declined Admin Application from Zeprus

[Grizzly]

Because of group polarisation, and how people are unlikely to believe one person defending themselves from claims which have threads backed up with their defence as "You don't know the backstory and Panda". Therefore having someone with more authority and legitimacy backing it up makes it less fake. Adding to that how everyone (in a lot of communities, not just here) tend to pile on with massive red text of -support as soon as someone else does, and make some very far reaching conclusions and closed off reasons. As I originally stated, I was making a counter to that original statement to prevent everyone piling on it and being biased.

I understand what you are saying, but my concern was more with how you had to come and help where Zeprus decided not to help himself. I do admit that you're right in terms of backing him up to prevent a wave of -Support however.

 

[𝐆𝐑𝐗𝐃]

Whether or not the owner was in the wrong isn't for me to say because I don't know him personally, but the fact remains that you did go against his wishes, which, as an admin, is something you should really avoid. I don't think Benedevil, for example, would appreciate it if you unbanned someone just because you, personally, didn't agree with his choice. Those who own the servers we play on have the right to exclude anyone they want to from their community. They don't necessarily need a reason, either.

I'm going to stick to my verdict, but that doesn't define the outcome. It's not me that decides at the end of the day.

 

[Noodl]

Whether or not the owner was in the wrong isn't for me to say because I don't know him personally, but the fact remains that you did go against his wishes, which, as an admin, is something you should really avoid. I don't think Benedevil, for example, would appreciate it if you unbanned someone just because you, personally, didn't agree with his choice. Those who own the servers we play on have the right to exclude anyone they want to from their community. They don't necessarily need a reason, either.

I'm going to stick to my verdict, but that doesn't define the outcome. It's not me that decides at the end of the day.

I'll tell you now, and anyone else from the same timespan as me, Ben, and whoever else will do the same: Ben and Kevin are very, very different. Not at all relative.
Going against the latter's wish is inevitable on many many occasions, just by having ordinary morals.
Me, Ben, Zeprus, and many other former admins are permanently banned simply for having different opinions, or in our case, running our own servers.

It's hard to understand without really knowing, regardless of how explicit I'm being.

 

[Buster]

Hello, can I jump in?
So as I said to Grizzly, Ben and Grxd on steam. I think you guys made the first wrong move with drawing premature conclusions. He just reacted to that not to the accusations. Ben also said to me:
Ben | blw.tf: I will go Neutral till he can explain then
Ben | blw.tf: Fair point
(if you check he's neutral now)

And now it is explained so I think we can move on. I still stand by what I said earlier. I had no problems with you. I have one question though. You were "puddin"s only friend on steam right? To me, that guy was pretty annoying as he kept on insulting and trolling this website for days (5 or 6 days to be specific) and seeking attention. I would like to know, (and this will sound weird) what you liked about him that he was on your friendslist? I just want to ask this because I never saw you trolling or insulting anyone and I want to believe that you don't share some personality traits that would later lead to similar behavior.

So like, it's pretty inappropriate I know, but I'd really appreciate it if you explained your "relationship" if you had any. I just want to hear something reasonable so I know you're not a sleeping agent ready to be activated. Thank you.

 

[Zeprus]

You were "puddin"s only friend on steam right? To me, that guy was pretty annoying as he kept on insulting and trolling this website for days (5 or 6 days to be specific) and seeking attention. I would like to know, (and this will sound weird) what you liked about him that he was on your friendslist? I just want to ask this because I never saw you trolling or insulting anyone and I want to believe that you don't share some personality traits that would later lead to similar behavior.

I still am and will continue to be unless he adds someone else. He is, unlike a lot of people I met on the internet, straight forward and genuine. The trolling and insulting is, what I believe, a result of him trying to provoke people to show how they really are. Sadly this behaviour backfires if someone already shows their true face. The trolling does not affect me very much, I'm fairly resistant to those things and I really appreciate when someone is honest which he is. While there were times where we had pretty bad arguments since he went over the top in my opinion it never lasted very long. About the "seeking attention" part, I don't think he actually seeks for attention but merely scans the way people react to given situations. And I do share the straight forward and honest part with him, at least I like to believe that. If I'm not please tell me.

Edit: Just saw that Viking is his friend too now so nevermind the first sentence.

 

[Grizzly]

While I haven't reached a conclusion yet, I'm with Buster at the moment in terms of the panda.tf situation. While I don't agree with taking action as opposed to discussion, I don't think this should be held up as something serious, seeing as I was once banned from PBFortress prematurely simply for being part of a different group. That did get revoked after discussion between the higher ups though. My point is that owners can be wrong and I don't think Zeprus should be declined solely for that reason.

However, this does hurt your credibility somewhat. Taking action in a situation that wouldn't have a favourable outcome seems rash. If you unban the banned players, they get rebanned and you get banned, if you don't, you save yourself the ban.

I'm going to shift into neutral and discuss my thoughts with some people. There are a lot of factors to go over and I appreciate the patience with this application.

 

[Noodl]

as opposed to discussion,

Yeah good luck with that at Panda. He has the receptibility of a stone.
Intelligent discussion is meaningless.

 

[𝐆𝐑𝐗𝐃]

I think I speak for everyone on Blackwonder when I say that we don't like trolls.

But I'm not going to take this app too off-course. I just hope that, should you become admin, you will deal with that kind of person appropriately.

 

[Buster]

The trolling and insulting is, what I believe, a result of him trying to provoke people to show how they really are.

About the "seeking attention" part, I don't think he actually seeks for attention but merely scans the way people react to given situations.

Seems to me like you basically describe what I said but you word it more indeterminably. The way he "provoked people to show how they really are" was annoying and I consider it trolling. And "scanning" people for 6 days nonstop to see how they react to certain situations is in my opinion as he did it attention seeking. I'm glad we kind of agree on this and that you differ from that part of his personality.

I also think honesty and straight forwardness is an important, valuable quality but to come up with a bad simile, If you throw pizza at a pile of shit I still wouldn't eat the pile of shit no matter how good that pizza is.
I think unless something interesting comes up this was my last response to this application. Wish you good luck!

 

[MiyukiMouse]

-support
> Involved into some unnecessary discusions and trolls.
> Friends with people who come to Discord (one even to forum) to troll and provoke people and defends them for doing it.
> Didn't trust admins actions against a certain person and requested evidence.

If you want to become a part of a team, you have to have some trust in them and their actions. I have no trust in you, I admit that honest, and hear other admins do not have any either. Therefore I think it's not a good idea to accept someone to the admin team when there are people having doubts over this person.

With the permaban situation on the Panda Community, well, it's not just Kevin but other admins standing behind it. We don't know the full story and we never will because it will always be words versus words. But it just doesn't help me trusting you.

I think you have some things to prove us and gain the trust before getting accepted to the admin team.

Just my opinion though.

 

[tomato.kitty.tf]

After Noodl's reply i'm standing Neutral.
I completely forgot that Kevin is an evil and negligible "human" and that his actions are completely inappropiate, so i won't give you -support for that reason.
I'm standing neutral because i don't really know you.

Good luck

 

[Zeprus]

However, this does hurt your credibility somewhat. Taking action in a situation that wouldn't have a favourable outcome seems rash. If you unban the banned players, they get rebanned and you get banned, if you don't, you save yourself the ban.

My actions were not rushed, I was fully aware that there would be consequences. It took me quite literally an entire day to decide what I would do.

> Involved into some unnecessary discusions and trolls.

If you could send me a PM and elaborate how exactly I was involved in "unnecessary" discussions and "trolls" I would really appreciate it. Constructive criticism is great.

> Friends with people who come to Discord (one even to forum) to troll and provoke people and defends them for doing it.

Where is that plural coming from? Add that please to the PM. AFAIK only Puddin is my friend.
Also, if you are trying to tell me I can't be friends with my friends I'll see it as a personal attack, not that I would care very much but it is definetly rude.

> Didn't trust admins actions against a certain person and requested evidence.

I do not understand how in the world requesting evidence could EVER be a bad thing. I am an analytical type of person, without evidence, facts or data I do not believe anything. As far as trust goes, I don't know you, I don't trust you enough to believe everything you say. It's as simple as that. If you don't trust me either that's fine.

If you want to become a part of a team, you have to have some trust in them and their actions.

Trust comes with being part of a team and collecting knowledge of how they carry out their responsibilities. Also the shit I've seen from other admins in the past did not confirm at all what you just said. My experience shows that it's better to question every single thing that is not proven without a doubt.

Thanks for the support @Noodl , @Buster and @Viking34 regardless. I really appreciate it.

@Benedevil please decline this application, I changed my mind. No, this is not because I got some negative feedback. It is because I do not want to be part of a team that attacks me on a personal level and jumps to conclusions prematurely to say the least.

 

[MiyukiMouse]

> I didn't tell you to unfriend. I just said you had friends who like to troll and you defend them when we take actions. It's not correct to defend trolls, friends or not.
> Being sceptic is fine but asking for evidence when we had our reasons that we not could entirely share (I can't just publicly post my entire chatlog with Cosmo where he trashtalked the entire admin team) but then to call us out saying we have no proof for what we did because we can't share it?
> Trust is a big deal when you want to become part of the admin team. But if it starts with half the team not trusting you and you not trusting them, it will be hard.

I just stated my opinion and thoughts of what I have seen. And if you see that as an attack on you personally, well, we are discussing you in this app so we will be talking about you but we don't attack you. If you see it like that, that's your opinion but don't forget it's YOUR admin application.