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(2022) Zombie Survival Weapon Balances.

A Gary

Somewhat Threatening
Joined
Nov 13, 2020
Messages
68
Steam
76561199000920172
Hello again everyone, Gary here, it’s been quite a while since the last changes huh? You don’t have to worry any longer after almost 10 months of waiting the Weapon Balances are here again!

The community has grown very fond of the changes over the time period with there being little to no problems popping up regarding balance, but of course some weapons do need changes so we can’t stay silent for long, enough talk, let’s move onto the list of changes beginning with Frontier Justice.

Frontier Justice
Gain 2 revenge crits each time your max leveled building is destroyed by a Zombie.
+20% Ramp-up
+40% Firing speed

Only 6 revenge crits can be stored
(Frontier Justice is receiving a buff to transform into a very powerful burst weapon against Zombies and Juggernauts, currently the FJ is underused because of its lower clip size (3) making it especially hard to deal damage with and not to mention the single revenge crit earned is gained from playing a weird passive playstyle that most players don’t like, therefore Frontier Justice’s new rebalance now has a set playstyle in mind; Defensive-Offense playstyle with incredible burst DPS.)

Widowmaker
15% Slower firing speed
(This is going to be a very controversial change so let me explain my reasoning, Widowmaker is an overpowered weapon against anyone as long as the user can confidently aim, so when people rather use in tight spaces where aim doesn’t matter you can easily recognize why it needs a nerf when it no longer has a downside at that point.)

Rescue Ranger
+25% Damage Bonus
+30% Reload speed

(Rescue Ranger is getting the the bad end of the deal like any other ZS server, as a result these minors buffs aren’t as detrimental but are very useful little changes that help a already supportive weapon!)

Short Circuit and Wrangler
(Both
of these weapons had their rebalances crossed out when Benedevil confirmed the list, but as for functionality these have not worked at all, no one really minded that they didn’t work or even noticed: please fix them.)

Gunslinger
Prevent crit kills from chaining into more stored crits

Eureka Effect
Consume 50 metal when teleporting.
(Eureka Effect is receiving a nerf, this nerf should prevent engineers from endlessly spamming teleport at the first sight of danger and maintain keeping an eye on metal count.)

Southern Hospitality
Change “20% Damage vulnerability” to “10% slower firing speed”
(After its harsh nerf hopefully this slight firing speed nerf will give it a nice change of pace and people will probably use it again.)

Jag

+15% Movement speed while active
(Jag isn’t the most useful melee after you’re done setting up in the beginning, so giving it this increased movement speed may make it a more useful weapon when running away or into battle like Powerjack, and yes it does stack with Texas Style with the trade off that it doesn’t 2 shot anymore sonce Jag has a damage penalty.)

I hope these rebalances make it into the game so we can enjoy and sorry that there’s no Medic melee changes.
 
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Mr. Walker

Spectacularly Lethal
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Messages
242
This isn’t suppose to be a flexible change you should only really use the Eureka as a support tool to escape, metal won’t be a long term issue with all the numerous ways a engineer can gain metal, it’s only going to matter that moment when you use it.


If you’re really smart you’ll stick nearby a teammate to help fight with or use them as a meat shield, Eureka isn’t some new weapon now that it has a balance change we’re still going to see the same gameplay with it that we’ve always seen but slightly different, I promise you that when it does get added no one will care that much about the metal cost afterwards restocking metal from ammo boxes or dispensers.
Wasn't one of your points initially that most people used Eureka whenever a base went down completely (or get scared fast without taking much risk so they escape anyway)?

Most players on this zs server don't really play in teams, they just wander off by themselves and the rest of the new players / casuals are just left off to constantly die because they have NO clue, unless somebody actually plans out for them where to go and survive which does happen on occasion from time-to-time.

And I'm not going to buy your claim that nobody will complain about your idea of Eureka taking in 75 metal wherever you'd like to teleport, this isn't like Widowmaker where you have perks that can evenly power itself against the new firing speed downside, just enough that it isn't that crippling in the end, but it obviously is not the case with the Eureka Effect.

And I have mentioned very early-on that some maps are rather stingy in pickups too, so you have to give them the penalty of drawing 50 metal instead of 75 because its not only more forgiving, especially if you plan to still use weapons that use metal, players that don't coordinate and maps with not enough resources to boot, eventually the engie has to find some more metal elsewhere without having to scourage around the map so much (putting themselves at risk against the medics) if they want to save their own hide
 

A Gary

Somewhat Threatening
Joined
Nov 13, 2020
Messages
68
Steam
76561199000920172
Wasn't one of your points initially that most people used Eureka whenever a base went down completely (or get scared fast without taking much risk so they escape anyway)?
Yes, it still is although now I’m wondering what you get for referencing back to this though when my point hasn’t changed?

Most players on this zs server don't really play in teams, they just wander off by themselves and the rest of the new players / casuals are just left off to constantly die because they have NO clue, unless somebody actually plans out for them where to go and survive which does happen on occasion from time-to-time.
We’ve both played for a long time, yet you’re perspective is way off from what I see players tend to stick near each other and normally go into colonies or spots that have an abnormal amount of teammates that they can rely on, as for the Eureka effect users they typically always have a plan as soon as they place their exit teleporter down and know when to use it. (Not every new player is clueless as to what’s going on and what the goal is.)

And I'm not going to buy your claim that nobody will complain about your idea of Eureka taking in 75 metal wherever you'd like to teleport, this isn't like Widowmaker where you have perks that can evenly power itself against the new firing speed downside, just enough that it isn't that crippling in the end, but it obviously is not the case with the Eureka Effect.
It was a little over exaggerated to satate that nobody would notice the change, however it’s not far off from the truth that many players wouldn’t really care from how easily metal is to come by on a majority of the maps, moreover perks will balance it in the case that it is crippling.

And I have mentioned very early-on that some maps are rather stingy in pickups too, so you have to give them the penalty of drawing 50 metal instead of 75 because its not only more forgiving, especially if you plan to still use weapons that use metal, players that don't coordinate and maps with not enough resources to boot, eventually the engie has to find some more metal elsewhere without having to scourage around the map so much (putting themselves at risk against the medics) if they want to save their own hide
No, we shouldn’t be forgiving to them just because they’re on a map with weird pickups, if players want to use weapons that require metal then good for them but they should realize that they need more metal after teleporting 50-75 metal or not to fit the requirement. You describe finding ammo boxes as a hard task but in my time playing they’re not hard to find but rather hard to remember where they are, on simple maps that everyone has played on they’ll remember a few metal spots that they can go to quickly without worry, or if a engineer isn’t scared of death anymore then they can go kill some normal zombies for metal and after that their one and only goal should be to survive.
 

Mr. Walker

Spectacularly Lethal
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Messages
242
Yes, it still is although now I’m wondering what you get for referencing back to this though when my point hasn’t changed?


We’ve both played for a long time, yet you’re perspective is way off from what I see players tend to stick near each other and normally go into colonies or spots that have an abnormal amount of teammates that they can rely on, as for the Eureka effect users they typically always have a plan as soon as they place their exit teleporter down and know when to use it. (Not every new player is clueless as to what’s going on and what the goal is.)


It was a little over exaggerated to satate that nobody would notice the change, however it’s not far off from the truth that many players wouldn’t really care from how easily metal is to come by on a majority of the maps, moreover perks will balance it in the case that it is crippling.


No, we shouldn’t be forgiving to them just because they’re on a map with weird pickups, if players want to use weapons that require metal then good for them but they should realize that they need more metal after teleporting 50-75 metal or not to fit the requirement. You describe finding ammo boxes as a hard task but in my time playing they’re not hard to find but rather hard to remember where they are, on simple maps that everyone has played on they’ll remember a few metal spots that they can go to quickly without worry, or if a engineer isn’t scared of death anymore then they can go kill some normal zombies for metal and after that their one and only goal should be to survive.
The discord community server's poll and users say otherwise, I don't have to explain my reasons for 50 over 75 metal drawn all over again
 

dyeds

Scarcely Lethal
Joined
Apr 15, 2022
Messages
35
50 metal party won
 

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Broboy4803

Truly Feared
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Messages
161
"This change however isn’t going to be as controversial as Widowmaker" This aged so poorly and its been only been out for a few days
 

Mr. Walker

Spectacularly Lethal
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
Messages
242
Yes, it still is although now I’m wondering what you get for referencing back to this though when my point hasn’t changed?


We’ve both played for a long time, yet you’re perspective is way off from what I see players tend to stick near each other and normally go into colonies or spots that have an abnormal amount of teammates that they can rely on, as for the Eureka effect users they typically always have a plan as soon as they place their exit teleporter down and know when to use it. (Not every new player is clueless as to what’s going on and what the goal is.)


It was a little over exaggerated to satate that nobody would notice the change, however it’s not far off from the truth that many players wouldn’t really care from how easily metal is to come by on a majority of the maps, moreover perks will balance it in the case that it is crippling.


No, we shouldn’t be forgiving to them just because they’re on a map with weird pickups, if players want to use weapons that require metal then good for them but they should realize that they need more metal after teleporting 50-75 metal or not to fit the requirement. You describe finding ammo boxes as a hard task but in my time playing they’re not hard to find but rather hard to remember where they are, on simple maps that everyone has played on they’ll remember a few metal spots that they can go to quickly without worry, or if a engineer isn’t scared of death anymore then they can go kill some normal zombies for metal and after that their one and only goal should be to survive.
I've played this server the longest out of any regular on this server to date, (aside New York), my perspective isn't off at all since either most engies use the Eureka Effect too early or too late in any given circumstance, you're very out-of-touch with how Zombie Survival plays out, considering you haven't even touched the server since 2020 (the last time you were an active regular to begin with)

And the amount of metal that you have to collect for 1 teleport ability is going to put not only the user of the Eureka Effect at a greater risk, but so will the weapon's main function, which is to escape, and when you run out of metal to use a teleportation ability that you'll only wind up using twice before having to collect even more metal ultimately defeats the whole point of using Eureka Effect because instead of escaping and finding shelter, you're escaping then having to scurry around the map for any metal pickups, and it just so happens that medics can cover PLENTY of ground very quickly, especially with leaps and summons

So in summary, -75 metal drawn when using a Eureka teleport is awful, punishing and bogus because it puts anyone that is using it on a much greater risk if they just so happen to make a mistake, teleport by accident, use the damn teleport to begin with, or using whatever weapon that they'd like to use, and it only gives you 2 uses before having to scarf down the map for a pickup (which obviously will get you killed) thanks to the zombies' superior ground and area control

So please make Eureka's ability to teleport draw 50 metal instead because it's fair, balanced enough and it allows engineers to use whatever favorite weapons they love to use without having to put themselves into too much risk constantly, keeping the main point of using Eureka fully-intact without the possibility of using teleports infinitely because they'll still need to hunt down metal if they keep using it
 
Last edited:

dyeds

Scarcely Lethal
Joined
Apr 15, 2022
Messages
35
if eureka gets a 75 metal cost that thing is gonna go unused like the southern hospitality
 

Whipboi

Unremarkable
Joined
Jan 7, 2022
Messages
28
I'd also also give Wrangler an extra buff by passively buffing your buildings damage resistance and health by 40%
 

Broboy4803

Truly Feared
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Messages
161
Can we not count crit kills to the kills needed to get a crit for gunslinger, it could result in people getting massive crits chains and gaining more crits from those kills, it has been most effective with TS. This is unbalance for obvious reason, you shouldn't be able to gain crits from getting crit kills and then wiping out a whole medic team.
 

Benedevil

Blackwonder's Own
Staff Member
Owner
Developer
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
3,060
Steam
76561198056589941
Hello again everyone, Gary here, it’s been quite a while since the last changes huh? You don’t have to worry any longer after almost 10 months of waiting the Weapon Balances are here again!

The community has grown very fond of the changes over the time period with there being little to no problems popping up regarding balance, but of course some weapons do need changes so we can’t stay silent for long, enough talk, let’s move onto the list of changes beginning with Frontier Justice.

Frontier Justice
Gain 2 revenge crits each time your max leveled building is destroyed by a Zombie.
+20% Ramp-up
+40% Firing speed

Only 6 revenge crits can be stored
(Frontier Justice is receiving a buff to transform into a very powerful burst weapon against Zombies and Juggernauts, currently the FJ is underused because of its lower clip size (3) making it especially hard to deal damage with and not to mention the single revenge crit earned is gained from playing a weird passive playstyle that most players don’t like, therefore Frontier Justice’s new rebalance now has a set playstyle in mind; Defensive-Offense playstyle with incredible burst DPS.)

Widowmaker
15% Slower firing speed
(This is going to be a very controversial change so let me explain my reasoning, Widowmaker is an overpowered weapon against anyone as long as the user can confidently aim, so when people rather use in tight spaces where aim doesn’t matter you can easily recognize why it needs a nerf when it no longer has a downside at that point.)


Rescue Ranger
+25% Damage Bonus
+30% Reload speed

(Rescue Ranger is getting the the bad end of the deal like any other ZS server, as a result these minors buffs aren’t as detrimental but are very useful little changes that help a already supportive weapon!)

Short Circuit and Wrangler
(Both
of these weapons had their rebalances crossed out when Benedevil confirmed the list, but as for functionality these have not worked at all, no one really minded that they didn’t work or even noticed: please fix them.)

Gunslinger
Prevent crit kills from chaining into more stored crits


Eureka Effect
Consume 50 metal when teleporting.
(Eureka Effect is receiving a nerf, this nerf should prevent engineers from endlessly spamming teleport at the first sight of danger and maintain keeping an eye on metal count.)

Southern Hospitality
Change “20% Damage vulnerability” to “10% slower firing speed”
(After its harsh nerf hopefully this slight firing speed nerf will give it a nice change of pace and people will probably use it again.)

Jag

+15% Movement speed while active
(Jag isn’t the most useful melee after you’re done setting up in the beginning, so giving it this increased movement speed may make it a more useful weapon when running away or into battle like Powerjack, and yes it does stack with Texas Style with the trade off that it doesn’t 2 shot anymore sonce Jag has a damage penalty.)

I hope these rebalances make it into the game so we can enjoy and sorry that there’s no Medic melee changes.


"
Short Circuit and Wrangler
(Both
of these weapons had their rebalances crossed out when Benedevil confirmed the list, but as for functionality these have not worked at all, no one really minded that they didn’t work or even noticed: please fix them.)
"
I don't remember what the changes are suppose to be anymore. Could you restate them?


"+20% Ramp-up "
I don't know what that means
 

A Gary

Somewhat Threatening
Joined
Nov 13, 2020
Messages
68
Steam
76561199000920172
Short Circuit and Wrangler
(Both
of these weapons had their rebalances crossed out when Benedevil confirmed the list, but as for functionality these have not worked at all, no one really minded that they didn’t work or even noticed: please fix them.)
"
I don't remember what the changes are suppose to be anymore. Could you restate them?


"+20% Ramp-up "
I don't know what that means
Ramp-up is the increased total damage amount the closer you are to the enemy: shotguns deal 9 damage a pellet at full ramp-up (90 damage) so with 20% more ramp-up you deal 10.8 damage a pellet (108 damage.)

Short circuit was increased range and +150% damage bonus on the M1 (hitscan beam.)
Wrangler was 33% damage resistance while active but deploys 10% slower.
 

Benedevil

Blackwonder's Own
Staff Member
Owner
Developer
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
3,060
Steam
76561198056589941
Short circuit was increased range and +150% damage bonus on the M1 (hitscan beam.)
I think I have a 50% damage bonus now? I can't really be bothered to detect when it's the M1 attack or not.
Range should also have increased by 50%


Ramp-up is the increased total damage amount the closer you are to the enemy: shotguns deal 9 damage a pellet at full ramp-up (90 damage) so with 20% more ramp-up you deal 10.8 damage a pellet (108 damage.)
I can't find an attribute here: https://tf2b.com/attriblist.php that does what you are looking for. And calculating the distance on each shot would be pretty dumb for a small change. Maybe you can find other buffs on the list I sent?


Wrangler was 33% damage resistance while active but deploys 10% slower.
Should be implemented now. Didn't test though

Let me know when something doesn't work.

Will keep the thread open for now
 
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