Completed Zombie Survival Weapon Balances. (Updated)

[Venusari]

Hello, Gary here the time has finally come for ZS's Weapon Balances. ?

These Weapon Balances are a bit old and may be subjected to change, but as of right now these balances are final until they're released to ZS. I don't want to keep you waiting, so I'll tell you what the colors represent. Blu represents an Upside for the weapon, meanwhile Red represents a Downsides for the weapon, furthermore, I have also added a discussion to as why we have made said changes toward the weapon.

Shotgun
No changes

Stock shotgun is a good reliable second to the Widowmaker, so because of that, no changes have been made toward it.

Frontier Justice (Added)
Gain 1 revenge mini-crit shot each time your building is destroyed by a medic.
Upon using your last revenge mini-crit, 2 shots are automatically loaded back.
Only 5 mIni-crits can be stored

Frontier Justice is a straight downgrade in ZS, because of its: lower magazine size, less damage in total, and no upside to help it. Our balance is similar to causal tf2, but with Mini-Crits instead of full-on Crits, and a reload feature to buff its total dps in line with the other shotguns or even higher.

Pomson 6000 (Added)
On hit: If the victim has Leap, 5 seconds is added back onto their leap cooldown.
+25% projectile speed
+30% firing speed

Pomson is a generally bad and unreliable weapon, because of its slow projectile speed and how easy medics can avoid it. Yet again our balance for the weapon is similar to causal tf2 with its draining ability, and also with an increased firing & projectile speed to deal more consistent damage up, but still not as great far range.

Widowmaker
...

Widowmaker has always been at the top, so as predicted, we've slightly nerfed its metal gain from 1:30 shots-metal gained to 2:30 shots-metal gained.

Rescue Ranger (Added)
No longer has Mark for death when picking up buildings from afar.
...

Rescue Ranger isn't a great offensive weapon because it straggles in dealing lots of damage quickly, to bring this weapon some actual joy we made it work by being both supportive and offensive. You first have to heal 250 hp with the RR to active the buff, the buff gives you a firing speed and more ammo to use which can be used supportively to heal buildings from Juggs or deal quick bursts of damage to medics.

Panic Attack
No changes

Panic Attack is pretty balanced so no new changes to it

Pistol
No changes

Number 1 and basically only secondary weapon pick got nothing much to say

Wrangler (Added)
When Active: The wearer gains +33% damage reduction.
+10% slower deployment speed

Similar to Rushy's balance of Wrangler but without the Movement speed buff because of perks like Jetpack

https://www.rushyservers.com/threads/zombie-survival-weapon-balances.676/#:~:text=most%20used%20secondary.-,Wrangler,-(%2B)%2010%25%20faster%20move

Short Circuit (Added)
M1 +150% damage bonus

Nerfed spamming M2, and increased M1 damage since it sucks xd let me sleep

Wrench
No changes

Although known as being an underused melee for Engineers, Stock will always remain the same because of how flexible the melee can be used in certain situations.

Gunslinger (Added)
Upon killing two medics with non-crit punches gain a guaranteed crit punch.
Upon pressing "R" Switch to "Crit Mode"
Only 3 Crits can be stored

This idea is from Rushy but slightly tweaked to where the crit can be used any time when needed with the downside of being less punishing toward random medics
https://www.rushyservers.com/threads/zombie-survival-weapon-balances.676/#:~:text=meta towards stock.-,Gunslinger,-(+) One Punch: One

Southern Hospitality (Added)
+20% damage vulnerability while active.

Since Southern currently has no downsides in ZS, it made sense for Texas Style players to abuse its high damage with no risk. To fix people abusing it this we've made southern riskier to use, but in doing so, the weapon may be used way less normally but we're fine with that.

Eureka Effect
50 metal cost per teleport

Eureka Effect is perfectly normal, but since people spam it so often, we decided to add an actual price to teleport by making it cost 50 metal to use in combinations with its original downside of less metal gain to keep it less spammy and riskier with widowmaker.

Jag
...



Bonesaw
No changes

Other than not having a taunt-kill like Ubersaw, Bonesaw has always been a good second melee choice for Medics to use since it has no downsides.

Ubersaw (Added)
On hit: Leap cooldown goes down by -4 seconds.

Ubersaw is the most used melee for Medics in any ZS server because of how reliable its taunt-kill is, but other than that it has no regular uses because of its 20% slower firing speed. To compensate for this, Ubersaw should be able to gain Leap faster on hit so the medic can bounce around between engineers. We're hoping this buff isn't as powerful as we think and can balance Ubersaw in the middle to be used more rather than just only for its taunt-kill.

Amputator
No changes

As of right now in our server, Amputator is in a pretty balanced spot. No change has been made toward it yet though.

Solemn Vow
No changes



Vita-saw (Added)
Upon pressing "R" use an organ: reduce 2 seconds off of Leap.
Successful kills gain +2 organs
Max amount of carriable organs (10.)

In ZS just like Frontier Justice, Vita-saw is thought of as a downgrade to stock since you're losing more health for nothing. To balance this Vita-saw is an Ubersaw alternative so that Medics have two ways to get Leap faster without having to waste time.​

 

[Venusari]

Orginal thread: https://blackwonder.tf/threads/zombie-survival-weapon-balances.29836/

 

[Chubba]

who knows when we'll get these changes

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

Let's see what shenanigans you've come up with this time.

Frontier Justice (At the current moment that ZS stands, Frontier Justice is a lackluster weapon and frankly just a downgrade of stock; so in order to balance this we've given the Frontier Justice a bit of a situational/reliable buff to keep it balanced compared to the other shotguns that engineer has.)
Gain 1 guaranteed Mini-Crit shot each time a building is destroyed by a medic
Upon successful kill 1 bullet is reloaded back
Only 3 MIni-Crits can be stored
-50% clip size

The upside of the FJ is its (mostly) silent taunt kill. The first buff is okay as long as you only get the mini crits if YOUR buildings are destroyed. The second one is gimmicky and takes away from the Widowmaker's benefit imo.

Pomson 6000 (The Pomson is a bad weapon in general because of its slow projectile speed; so when we had to come up with a balance for Pomson we were a little stumped because we didn't just wanna give it a projectile speed buff and call it a day. I later brought up the idea of putting its Drain ability back into use by making it drain/add 5 seconds to a medic's leap cooldown, and so that's how we came up with its weapon balance right now.)
On hit: If the victim has leap, 5 seconds is added back onto their leap cooldown.
+30% firing speed
-34% clip size

This sounds like it could be trouble when paired with the freezer perk, or invalidate freezer entirely. Perhaps add a swing speed penalty to any medic affected instead?

Rescue Ranger (Rescue Ranger wasn't changed much because of its nature, so we just changed the numbers around.)
Alt-Fire: Use 50 metal to pick up buildings from long range
Fires a special bolt that can repair friendly buildings
-16% clip size
-50% max primary ammo on wearer
4-to-1 health-to-metal ratio when repairing buildings

Sure, not like RR's breaking anything with a few buffs.

Wrangler (Kept it around the same as Rushy's balance, except we've removed the speed buff.)
When Active: The wearer gains +33% damage reduction.

Seems reasonable.

Southern Hospitality (Gave this a pretty reasonable downside, since it has none in ZS.)
On hit: Target bleeds for 5 seconds
On miss: Hit yourself with bleed damage

That's over the top, a better fit would be the Powerjack's 20% damage vulnerability while equipped. That way you're punished for getting hit rather than for trying use the weapon at all. Engineers also do not need access to Basher jumping on top of the Jetpack perk.

Jag (The balance for this weapon was mainly for fun, and support to Engineers.)
Construction hit speed boost increased by 50%
+15% faster firing speed
When Active: The wearer gains +20% Jump height.
20% slower repair rate
-25% damage penalty
-33% damage penalty vs buildings

Again, engineers do not need more jump height. Imo the jag is fine as is.

Ubersaw (Ubersaw has been buff to keep Medics always active, and to keep rounds going fast instead of wasting time waiting for leap.)
On hit: Leap cooldown goes down by -4 second
20% slower firing speed

Again this weapons benefit is its taunt kill, which is quite effective against certain spots. Maybe just nix the firing speed penalty here.

Vita-saw (Vita-saw has been buffed to be a Medic melee beast if used correctly, at the downside of -10 max health.)
On hit: Engineer bleeds for 5 seconds, and heals +4 hp per second the engineer has bleed. (Medic bleed deals 10/s.)
-10 max health

I don't even wanna think about fighting a fully resistant juggernaut with extra regeneration and damage, no sir. Honestly the -4 seconds off leap change you proposed should go here instead of on the ubersaw, the hp trade for an agility bonus makes more sense imo.

 

[Venusari]

Let's see what shenanigans you've come up with this time.

The upside of the FJ is its (mostly) silent taunt kill. The first buff is okay as long as you only get the mini crits if YOUR buildings are destroyed. The second one is gimmicky and takes away from the Widowmaker's benefit imo.

This sounds like it could be trouble when paired with the freezer perk, or invalidate freezer entirely. Perhaps add a swing speed penalty to any medic affected instead?

Sure, not like RR's breaking anything with a few buffs.

Seems reasonable.

That's over the top, a better fit would be the Powerjack's 20% damage vulnerability while equipped. That way you're punished for getting hit rather than for trying use the weapon at all. Engineers also do not need access to Basher jumping on top of the Jetpack perk.

Again, engineers do not need more jump height. Imo the jag is fine as is.

Again this weapons benefit is its taunt kill, which is quite effective against certain spots. Maybe just nix the firing speed penalty here.

I don't even wanna think about fighting a fully resistant juggernaut with extra regeneration and damage, no sir. Honestly the -4 seconds off leap change you proposed should go here instead of on the ubersaw, the hp trade for an agility bonus makes more sense imo.

Hey, Cold Knight thanks for giving some feedback on the weapon balances! I'll take most of these suggestion inconsideration.

 

[Mr. Walker]

Let's see what shenanigans you've come up with this time.

The upside of the FJ is its (mostly) silent taunt kill. The first buff is okay as long as you only get the mini crits if YOUR buildings are destroyed. The second one is gimmicky and takes away from the Widowmaker's benefit imo.

This sounds like it could be trouble when paired with the freezer perk, or invalidate freezer entirely. Perhaps add a swing speed penalty to any medic affected instead?

Sure, not like RR's breaking anything with a few buffs.

Seems reasonable.

That's over the top, a better fit would be the Powerjack's 20% damage vulnerability while equipped. That way you're punished for getting hit rather than for trying use the weapon at all. Engineers also do not need access to Basher jumping on top of the Jetpack perk.

Again, engineers do not need more jump height. Imo the jag is fine as is.

Again this weapons benefit is its taunt kill, which is quite effective against certain spots. Maybe just nix the firing speed penalty here.

I don't even wanna think about fighting a fully resistant juggernaut with extra regeneration and damage, no sir. Honestly the -4 seconds off leap change you proposed should go here instead of on the ubersaw, the hp trade for an agility bonus makes more sense imo.

While I do agree with most of both of each other's viewpoints, theres a few gaps to fill in.

The FJ's tauntkill is used either only to troll or for memes, doesn't get seriously used often, the clip is also 3 shots, it really won't invalidate Widowmaker as a whole.

A swing-speed delay when you hit a medic with a shot is very good actually, however one point of contention is that you say it may invalidate Freezer's whole point, but does it really when Pomson is very tough to hit players with it's Rocket Launcer projectile speed, inability to clip through many surfaces and the fire delay.

The additional jump height can be useful in many regards, for escapes, making it into spots less frustrating, and gaining farther distance to strike medics down, and helping newer players get the hold of how leaps work, not like the buff will completely make Jetpack or Jag too OP.

Cutting off the Ubersaw's swing speed nerf would just result in an overall upgrade with the additive buff of confusing players when you hit them from 8 miles away, it should keep the swing nerf.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

The FJ's tauntkill is used either only to troll or for memes, doesn't get seriously used often, the clip is also 3 shots, it really won't invalidate Widowmaker as a whole.

Maybe, its still an odd change.

A swing-speed delay when you hit a medic with a shot is very good actually, however one point of contention is that you say it may invalidate Freezer's whole point, but does it really when Pomson is very tough to hit players with it's Rocket Launcer projectile speed, inability to

Small prices to pay for its infinite ammo and infinite range. How good does it need to be?

The additional jump height can be useful in many regards, for escapes, making it into spots less frustrating, and gaining farther distance to strike medics down, and helping newer players get the hold of how leaps work, not like the buff will completely make Jetpack or Jag too OP.

Spots are exactly why engineers don't need a jump height increase. Parkouring to the top of a map with Jetpack is obnoxious to deal with and its resulted in medics receiving abilities they never should have otherwise. If engineers can get to a jump height that exceeds second leap they can basically win if they can find a proper perch.

Cutting off the Ubersaw's swing speed nerf would just result in an overall upgrade with the additive buff of confusing players when you hit them from 8 miles away, it should keep the swing nerf.

Wdym 8 miles? This would be instead of the -4 leap reduction on hit.

 

[Mr. Walker]

Maybe, its still an odd change.

Small prices to pay for its infinite ammo and infinite range. How good does it need to be?

Spots are exactly why engineers don't need a jump height increase. Parkouring to the top of a map with Jetpack is obnoxious to deal with and its resulted in medics receiving abilities they never should have otherwise. If engineers can get to a jump height that exceeds second leap they can basically win if they can find a proper perch.

Wdym 8 miles? This would be instead of the -4 leap reduction on hit.

The last one was because 88% of players who use Ubersaw hit from 8 miles.

Sure the Pomson has infinite ammo and reload, but it already has the downside of it being bumped from the start with it's corny clipping, a delay when you fire, and generally being super easy to avoid and counter, and on top it does the least damage of all primaries for engies aside the Rescue Ranger.

Hate Jetpack much?

It opens much more possibilities for maps, either positive or negative or you personally hate it.

Besides, its worse off without perks since Zs is a very rinse and repeat gamemode, and playing on other servers really show.

In a nutshell:

Engies go into a room, fortify it, make medics die 9 times to get rid of a building.

Being medic is also painfully unfun when you don't have handy tools at your disposal, wether they're overstuffed it or not, 2nd leap was needed anyways because otherwise you'd be seeing tons of stupid map edits and medics failing to beat multi-step-process spots.

Also it's a 20% increase, not 2 entire stacked leaps, though we don't know how far it'll go, we will see at some point if this gets accepted.

 

[Venusari]

Spots are exactly why engineers don't need a jump height increase. Parkouring to the top of a map with Jetpack is obnoxious to deal with and its resulted in medics receiving abilities they never should have otherwise. If engineers can get to a jump height that exceeds second leap they can basically win if they can find a proper perch.

Cold Knight just to be sure, you do know that Medic Leap was added before Jetpack right?

 

[Venusari]

@10000 Cold Knights BTW What do you think of Short Circuit ??

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

Cold Knight just to be sure, you do know that Medic Leap was added before Jetpack right?

Second leap wasn't iirc.

@10000 Cold Knights BTW What do you think of Short Circuit ??

Neutral honestly.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

The last one was because 88% of players who use Ubersaw hit from 8 miles.

Lmao, okay dude.

It opens much more possibilities for maps,

It breaks maps, you mean.

Besides, its worse off without perks since Zs is a very rinse and repeat gamemode, and playing on other servers really show

That does not justify keeping broken perks in the game when alternative options can be added.

Hate Jetpack much?

Jetpack used offensively is fine. Players like Skaldas can use it quite effectively that way. Playing passive with Battery Jetpack and roosting near the skybox is not.

Besides, its worse off without perks since Zs is a very rinse and repeat gamemode, and playing on other servers really show.

In a nutshell:

Engies go into a room, fortify it, make medics die 9 times to get rid of a building.

Yes, please tell the Jailbreak admin more about rinse and repeat game modes.
Sarcasm aside, that's only the case because a lot of solo tactics are hampered by medics being able to summon on lone targets. Engie nests can be oppressive on occasion but so is repeatedly trying to reach a mountain climbing engie who just casually airshots you with a shotgun whenever you get close.

Being medic is also painfully unfun when you don't have handy tools at your disposal,

Not at all, it just encourages thinking strategically. There's also a difference between tools and an instant win button.

2nd leap was needed anyways because otherwise you'd be seeing tons of stupid map edits and medics failing to beat multi-step-process spots.

No actually, if jetpack never existed there'd be no need for second leap, since anything reachable by a dispenser jump could be reached by a leap.

 

[Chubba]

Honestly I agree with some of the wanted changes here but are we really gonna recieve a weapon balence update for zs

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

Honestly I agree with some of the wanted changes here but are we really gonna recieve a weapon balence update for zs

Hopefully someday. Sucks not having a personal dev for your game mode, doesn't it lol

 

[Chubba]

Hopefully someday. Sucks not having a personal dev for your game mode, doesn't it lol

kinda does best we can do is atleast fixing the maps on zs

 

[Mr. Walker]

Lmao, okay dude.

It breaks maps, you mean.

That does not justify keeping broken perks in the game when alternative options can be added.

Jetpack used offensively is fine. Players like Skaldas can use it quite effectively that way. Playing passive with Battery Jetpack and roosting near the skybox is not.

Yes, please tell the Jailbreak admin more about rinse and repeat game modes.
Sarcasm aside, that's only the case because a lot of solo tactics are hampered by medics being able to summon on lone targets. Engie nests can be oppressive on occasion but so is repeatedly trying to reach a mountain climbing engie who just casually airshots you with a shotgun whenever you get close.

Not at all, it just encourages thinking strategically. There's also a difference between tools and an instant win button.

No actually, if jetpack never existed there'd be no need for second leap, since anything reachable by a dispenser jump could be reached by a leap.

Jetpack is more so reliant on the map itself if it got the right clipping or makes props into Vphysics, if every map had tons of clips then Jetpack would kinda of be useless aside offensive purposes and escape.

And the whole point of the perk wasn't specifically or blatently intended to break maps, why do people think that?

And IF theres any alternatives aside double jumps which already exists in one place, what could they be.

Thats why we made another post back which adds a new command for medics to not get forced summoned, and summon being less abusable?

But then if engineers didn't have Jetpack, and medics still had leap, wouldn't that just be unfair as a whole when you got a zombie that can market garden and knock somebody off their socks, plus lets say that were true, most dispenser-reachable spots would wind up being just bad.

 

[Venusari]

Sucks not having a personal dev for your game mode, doesn't it lol

Actually we do have a personal dev, but he's not active because he has to do a bunch of other stuff to do ??

 

[Benedevil]

Things I have been able to complete are crossed out:

Shotgun
No changes

Stock shotgun is a good reliable second to the Widowmaker, so because of that, no changes have been made toward it.

Frontier Justice
Gain 1 revenge mini-crit shot each time your building is destroyed by a medic.
Upon using your last revenge mini-crit, 2 shots are automatically loaded back.
Only 5 mini-crits can be stored

Frontier Justice is a straight downgrade in ZS, because of its: lower magazine size, less damage in total, and no upside to help it. Our balance is similar to causal tf2, but with Mini-Crits instead of full-on Crits, and a reload feature to buff its total dps in line with the other shotguns or even higher.

Pomson 6000
On hit: If the victim has Leap, 5 seconds is added back onto their leap cooldown.
+25% projectile speed
+30% firing speed

Pomson is a generally bad and unreliable weapon, because of its slow projectile speed and how easy medics can avoid it. Yet again our balance for the weapon is similar to causal tf2 with its draining ability, and also with an increased firing & projectile speed to deal more consistent damage up, but still not as great far range.

Widowmaker
The maximum amount of metal earned per shot changed to +45

Widowmaker has always been at the top, so as predicted, we've slightly nerfed its metal gain from 1:30 shots-metal gained to 2:30 shots-metal gained.

Rescue Ranger
No longer has Mark for death when picking up buildings from afar.
Build "Rescue Energy" by healing buildings with Rescue Ranger. (250 building hp healed)
M2 with full "Rescue Energy": gain +15% firing speed, and use max primary ammo instead of clipsize for 6 seconds.

Rescue Ranger isn't a great offensive weapon because it straggles in dealing lots of damage quickly, to bring this weapon some actual joy we made it work by being both supportive and offensive. You first have to heal 250 hp with the RR to active the buff, the buff gives you a firing speed and more ammo to use which can be used supportively to heal buildings from Juggs or deal quick bursts of damage to medics.

Panic Attack
No changes

Panic Attack is pretty balanced so no new changes to it

Pistol
No changes

Number 1 and basically only secondary weapon pick got nothing much to say

Wrangler
When Active: The wearer gains +33% damage reduction.
+10% slower deployment speed

Similar to Rushy's balance of Wrangler but without the Movement speed buff because of perks like Jetpack

https://www.rushyservers.com/threads/zombie-survival-weapon-balances.676/#:~:text=most%20used%20secondary.-,Wrangler,-(%2B)%2010%25%20faster%20move

Short Circuit
+150% damage bonus
M2 costs 75 metal

Nerfed spamming M2, and increased M1 damage since it sucks xd let me sleep

Wrench
No changes

Although known as being an underused melee for Engineers, Stock will always remain the same because of how flexible the melee can be used in certain situations.

Gunslinger
Upon killing two medics with non-crit punches gain a guaranteed crit punch.
Upon pressing "R" Switch to "Crit Mode"
10% slower melee speed while on "Crit Mode"
Only 3 Crits can be stored

This idea is from Rushy but slightly tweaked to where the crit can be used any time when needed with the downside of being less punishing toward random medics
https://www.rushyservers.com/threads/zombie-survival-weapon-balances.676/#:~:text=meta towards stock.-,Gunslinger,-(+) One Punch: One

Southern Hospitality
+20% damage vulnerability while active.

Since Southern currently has no downsides in ZS, it made sense for Texas Style players to abuse its high damage with no risk. To fix people abusing it this we've made southern riskier to use, but in doing so, the weapon may be used way less normally but we're fine with that.

Eureka Effect
50 metal cost per teleport

Eureka Effect is perfectly normal, but since people spam it so often, we decided to add an actual price to teleport by making it cost 50 metal to use in combinations with its original downside of less metal gain to keep it less spammy and riskier with widowmaker.

Jag
Building build speed increased by +100%
Removed "Construction hit speed boost"

Jag is a very good supportive melee many people just generally don't use it because it deals less damage, but we're not gonna change jag much from its original purpose so we just made it more viable in colonies.

Bonesaw
No changes

Other than not having a taunt-kill like Ubersaw, Bonesaw has always been a good second melee choice for Medics to use since it has no downsides.

Ubersaw
On hit: Leap cooldown goes down by -4 seconds.

Ubersaw is the most used melee for Medics in any ZS server because of how reliable its taunt-kill is, but other than that it has no regular uses because of its 20% slower firing speed. To compensate for this, Ubersaw should be able to gain Leap faster on hit so the medic can bounce around between engineers. We're hoping this buff isn't as powerful as we think and can balance Ubersaw in the middle to be used more rather than just only for its taunt-kill.

Amputator
No changes

As of right now in our server, Amputator is in a pretty balanced spot. No change has been made toward it yet though.

Solemn Vow
Be able to see a person's perk and the cooldown of their perk.
+15% damage reduction after not swinging your melee for 5 seconds, and disappears after swing your melee.

Solemn Vow is always in a weird balance spot between bad or good because some people see the Vow as a selfish weapon, but in ZS since it has an actual use to see Sneaky Partner Engineers it could be viewed as good. The balance for this weapon is centered around more information and for Juggernauts to use not being outshined by the Ubersaw and Vita-saw balances.

Vita-saw
Upon pressing "R" use an organ, to reduce 2 seconds off of Leap.
Successful kills gain +2 organs (5 total organs if you kill and land all your hit)
Max amount of carriable organs (10.)​

 

[Mr. Walker]

Thanks Hagvan and Benedevil

 

[Benedevil]

This is covered now I believe.