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VSH LR Spy/Engineer Nerfs

Should these changes be added to the VSH LR?


  • Total voters
    9

BOT LinPengtul

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Sep 26, 2018
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Nerfs:
Spy: DR and L'Etranger Nerfs
Engineer: Sentry Gun Knockback Nerf
Why:
If anyone has the joy of experiencing a JB VSH LR, you will notice that
1. Many Spies, almost all of them equip the DR and the L'Etranger
2. If there is a climb, or a obby with surf, there will be an engineer camping there(this is espically common on maps such as simple, complex, district)
These will usually result in either
1. In the case of Climb Engies, Hale will have almost no potion of getting up to the climb(espically in district), then will get trapped in the climb and will just suffer in the climb, espically if there is a pyro on RED.
2. Delay the round, keep Dead Ringing ad Bhopping away, charge up cloak with L'Etranger, activate DR, rinse and repeat
This results in the LR being played for the full 10 minutes, which for 90% of the server including the hale, just gets dragged out and boring.
How:
DR Nerfs: EIther Make the clock shorter, have it have a limited number of getoutofjailfree cards, No charging from L'Etranger,
L'Etranger Nerfs: Reduced Cloak and Reduced reserved Ammo
Engineer Sentry: Make it shoot slower but deal more damage/ shot while reduced knockback, or make the hale invincible to bullet knockback while raged.
 

cyveray

Scarcely Lethal
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Oct 17, 2018
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I agree that the L'Etranger is the most annoying weapon in Spies arsenal it could have the extra cloak on hit removed or replaced by the stock revolver sort of like how the stock sapper is replaced with a pistol. I honestly think removing the L'Etranger would be a good thing encouraging spies to equip the Big Earner if they want to receive cloak, thus introducing a high risk high reward aspect to the DR. I may agree that the L'Etranger should be nerfed but I don't think the DR should be affected as the stock is way better in my opinion you can activate it at almost anytime, can take more hits than the DR, replenish cloak from ammo boxes, and can escape hale easier.

I am indifferent on the engineer nerf because hale already disables sentries whilst raged and most climbs have checkpoints built into them so an intelligent hale can already deal with players in those climbs. But climbs that are unfair for hale are an issue so I think hale should recieve less sentry knock back, I don't think increasing the damage that sentries can deal in general would be a good idea as it might negitively affect minigames like sentry dodge or LR's such as class wars.
 
Last edited:

Sonny

Truly Feared
Joined
Sep 24, 2018
Messages
195
Remove dead-ringer or make it on a 30 second cooldown or something of that nature so spies can't use it as a crutch and make rounds last 10mins
 

10000 Cold Knights

Sufficiently Lethal
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Feb 20, 2019
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The L'Etranger isn't busted on it's own, its the fact that it has 250 reserve rounds, for some reason. Toning this back to a more humane ammo count would force spies to be more careful without completely neutering the class's viability for this LR. That, and also lowering the spies damage resistance while under cloak (it take 5-6 hits to kill a cloaked spy, for some reason) would make it much easier for hales to deal with them.

The problem with engineer is not knockback, but instakilling map hazards. Nerfing sentry knockback is pointless, as a pyro can just as easily take advantage of most of the common spots. Fixing the few instant death hazards that remain (most usually inflict 1-2000 damage and teleport the hale back to armory) would be enough to eliminate knockback as a game-breaking issue while still giving engineers in normal spots a fighting chance.
 

Derpachu

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Feb 14, 2019
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I mean, the DR and L'etranger spies are annoying, they can delay an entire round by just DRing nonstop. But a good hale can destroy a DR spy, and a good hale can time his rage to destroy the sentry.

In my opinion, you don't need to change anything in the Engineer's arsenal, but rather nerf the DR with like, a cool down for it. I can deal with the L'etranger, the DR is the pain here.

As a decent hale, and a DR spy, I must say that DR spies are annoying to deal with, but when you're a good hale, Its actually easy to defeat them.
 

Tax Fraud

Spectacularly Lethal
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Aug 12, 2018
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But a good hale can destroy a DR spy, and a good hale can time his rage to destroy the sentry.
In certain Climbs or obbys, a single sentry can be enough to shoot the hale from far away locking him in a knock off state. This is even worse with multiple sentries. It gets impossible when the climb parts are close to each other and you can’t get up with a single rage.
 

Noctis

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Jan 17, 2018
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I would say YES to this, and only for this reason:
NOT MANY HALES ARE GOOD AT GETTING SPIES THAT USE DR OR ENGINEERS THAT CAMP A PLACE AND IT MAKES THE ROUND LONGER.
Now with that said, here we go, so what you can do here is this:
NOTE: When using
RAGE, ALL DEADRINGERS ARE UNUSABLE, AS YOU ARE IN A STATE OF BEING STUNNED, UBER MEDICS CAN ALSO NOT HEAL THEIR TARGET DURING THAT TIME, SINCE THEY ARE ALSO STUNNED, MEANING THEIR HEAL TARGET IS LEFT WIDE OPEN.
- For
Engineers: When you have RAGE fully charged, try to brave jump onto an engineer's building or towards him and then use the RAGE, disabling his sentry and him from attacking.
- For
Spies: For the spies, you want to at least stop all movement of them possible and fast, if they are bunny hopping, make sure to at least block them, making them lose all speed, hit them and they will probably have a DR. If they use it, use your RAGE at that time, disabling him from running very far.
- For
Spies, but as Saxton Hale: Another strategy is to stomp on their heads, using brave jump *only if you are Saxton Hale, like the actual Saxton Hale* and their dead ringer should activate, in that time, use RAGE, then you can easily kill them. NOTE: You can stomp everyone, but mostly use it for spies that are picking at you.
- For
Spies and Engineers, but as Headless Horseman: When the RAGE is fully activated, try to get close to a Spy or Engineer, use teleport by crouching and charging it to 100%, if you do find the desired player, try to get as close to them as possible as you are stunned for a couple of seconds, then use your RAGE.
-
Christan Brutal Sniper AKA CBS and the BUNNY DEMOMAN, I did not include them because their rages don't do much.
The
BUNNY DEMOMAN will just only spray bombs and stun a few people, you can get spies pretty easily if they are nearby, considering the bomb will at least hit them doing a considerable amount of damage.
The
Christan Brutal Sniper only has a huntsman and his super fast and accurate arrows, his rage has a little small stun effect area, so you can catch spies pretty easily if you are a good shot.

Hope this helped! ~ Noctis Lucis Caelum
 
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10000 Cold Knights

Sufficiently Lethal
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NOTE: When using RAGE, ALL DEADRINGERS ARE UNUSABLE, AS YOU ARE IN A STATE OF BEING STUNNED, UBER MEDICS CAN ALSO NOT HEAL THEIR TARGET DURING THAT TIME, SINCE THEY ARE ALSO STUNNED, MEANING THEIR HEAL TARGET IS LEFT WIDE OPEN.
Not entirely true. A spy who has his Deadringer active can still use it, but he can't deactivate it and the spooked effect follows him wherever he goes.
As for ubered Medics, while thats true for most stun mechanics (such as the Huntsman taunt and getting crit by the Holiday Punch), you cannot be spooked while ubering or ubered, so be sure to rage stun the medic before he pops or you've wasted your rage.
I've never actually seen it happen, but the uber rule also applies to spies who just got a backstab, so be sure not to rage immediately after being stabbed or the spy might be immune to it.
 

Noctis

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Not entirely true. A spy who has his Deadringer active can still use it, but he can't deactivate it and the spooked effect follows him wherever he goes.
As for ubered Medics, while thats true for most stun mechanics (such as the Huntsman taunt and getting crit by the Holiday Punch), you cannot be spooked while ubering or ubered, so be sure to rage stun the medic before he pops or you've wasted your rage.
I've never actually seen it happen, but the uber rule also applies to spies who just got a backstab, so be sure not to rage immediately after being stabbed or the spy might be immune to it.
Ah thanks for that >///< Me is a big stupid!
But the best thing to do:
- Get the Hale into a corner of the map or a tight space
- Get a stun taunt killing weapon
- Spam it when he is stuck, don't be scared if he uses rage, you can still taunt kill with your weapon
- Easy $$$
 

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