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Completed VSH LR Buff JB

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Oak

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So I've played quite a lot of LR rounds of VSH after the recent nerf it has received, and every round in which I have played apart from 1 hale has lost. I also see a lot of people complaining about VSH in chat and how it's too easy to beat hale. So I'm coming up with a suggestion in which I think would please both parties, this suggestion includes:

1: Bring back the old LR VSH hp.

2: Add revive boxes which are seen on Blackwonder VSH servers so medics are a lot more useful.

3: Increase the time slightly, it's been halved so I suggest moving it from 50% to 75% of the old pre-nerfed time.

4: Remove BHOP for hale, it's way to OP since he can super jump and gain speed quick.

If you don't like one of these suggestions or want to add to these suggestions I have made feel free to in the replies. I'm going to be making a poll on to whether you would want this suggestion or not.
 

Kiri

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So reds can bhop, but hale can’t...

It was perfect before this whole change.
 
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Wanka

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spoi

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1. Sure
2. Sure. Good Hale knows to gank meds first anyway
3. Sure
4. No. Demos, Sollys, ringer Spies and (to a certain extent) Quick-Fix meds can go from a standstill to 200mph in about 5 seconds. Hale only moves about as fast as a Scout so removing bunnyhop would fuck everything up
Alternatively replace VSH with frozen for 600 seconds day
 

BananAsriel

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1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes
4. No

the thing about vsh within jailbreak is that unlike an actual vsh server not everyone is even willing to play the gamemode as an lr sometimes, i feel like A LOT if not MOST of the times the LR reduces itself to watching 3 people sit or bhop around for 5 minutes until the hale finds them, mostly deadringer spies or engineers hoping to telefrag, vsh in jailbreak works different and furthermore should be treated different. You can never rely on a donor always being there or a staff being present at all times to enforce that the round doesnt become all of red team but 1 engineer spectating the game. i feel like this nerf should aim to fix vhs to fit more inside of jailbreak because of all these reasons more than fixing it as a gamemode alone.

As for the bhop, it's already difficult to catch up to spies and soldiers bhopping, it would only encourage delaying
 

Jotape

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jotape

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1.Yes
2.Yes
3.Yes
4.No
Bhoping is the only thing that makes the hale able to kill others bhopers.
 

Peter

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CometPM

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I dont want bhop to be removed only for hale but the from the lr entirely. Vsh isnt balanced for bhopping and I dont see a valid reason* for it to be kept in the lr. I love JB and VSH and bhopping but I very much dislike bhopping (regardless of team) in VSH.

Other than this, I agree with 1, 3, and 4.

*
"JB players would get confused" - I don't think this is an issue at all because they would be able to tell very quickly that bhopping has been disabled.
"Too much work to implement" - Idk that much about the plugin but it seems like you could use the already existing /bhop command to force it to be disbled at all times during the round and be reset to what it was before the round started.
"People like bhop in VSH" - I don't see bhop being requested in the normal VSH servers so why would it be liked elsewhere? I think bhopping gives hale way too much speed as he superjumps (especially on maps with low ceilings) which allows him to travel around an entire map in barely any time at all. This isn't fun for slower classes and encourages people to camp/delay to stop Hale from being able to roll up to them at 2000u/s.
"People already pick the VSH lr in JB a lot with bhop enabled" - When people (more so for newer JB players) who like VSH pick the lr, they want VSH, which is why I like the lr. Bhopping is a part of every other lr in JB as well so is definitely not the reason for it's popularity.
 
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Oak

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Good point about the BHOP, if it was removed entirely then number 4 and the defense against it wouldn't be a problem. But BHOP is fun in JB in my opinion.
 

10000 Cold Knights

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People like bhop in VSH" - I don't see bhop being requested in the normal VSH servers so why would it be liked elsewhere? I think bhopping gives hale way too much speed as he superjumps (especially on maps with low ceilings) which allows him to travel around an entire map in barely any time at all. This isn't fun for slower classes and encourages people to camp/delay to stop Hale from being able to roll up to them at 2000u/s.
Standard VSH servers have their own problems (looking at you, VSH2) and bhop is one of the things that sets the LR apart from its mainstream cousin. Hale easily outpaces the other classes even without bhop, all bhop really does is buff the Horsemann a bit and give some of the other classes some new movement options (bhopping as a trolldier, for example, is quite fun). As for the "slower classes" you speak of, you have:
Pyro, which can airblast and try and instakill the hale with map hazards.
Heavy, can camp with an engineer and bhop off the knockback if he gets hit.
Engie, who's whole point is to camp anyway.
And sniper, see above.
 

✪ZIC∆RI

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1. Yes.
2. Maybe.
3.Yes, cause even if I died first or quickly I can w8 everytime.
4.No. I know that he can gain speed quickly because of the bhop n adding his ability to super jump but if you removed bhop for hale then he would be more nerf than before even if the hale have alot of hp cause some maps are big that make the hale hard to get the reds n sum it to that some class can pack a punch that can knockback hale farther away like the pyro airblast n the fully charged sniper rifle that can knockback the hale very far when he super jump.
 

Peter

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Standard VSH servers have their own problems (looking at you, VSH2) and bhop is one of the things that sets the LR apart from its mainstream cousin.
I agree that VSH2 has problems with it being imbalanced but it is a lot more balanced than the LR counterpart which heavily favours Hales who know how to bhop properly. I don't think bhop is what sets it apart from the normal gamemode as being on the jailbreak maps with a massive variety of situations makes it unique enough to be fun to play when no one is bhopping.
Hale easily outpaces the other classes even without bhop, all bhop really does is buff the Horsemann a bit and give some of the other classes some new movement options (bhopping as a trolldier, for example, is quite fun).
Pyro, Sniper, Scout, Demo, and even Engi with Eureka can easily evade most Hales if they have the right timing (which is a far easier mechanic to understand and learn than bhopping) when Hale doesn't have bhop. Hale can outpace other classes but as a team it is quite easy to allow these classes to get into their optimal positions with Pyro being able to control Hales movement quite well. As for the new movement options, they don't add much to the classes that they don't already since these classes that are usually bhopping have tools which allow them to move around freely.

The Horsemann in the LR isn't in the greatest spot right now because when he teleports he gets a free kill if the victim is unfortunate enough to be in the air due to a very fun glitch and also he cannot climb walls with his melee (in the current version) so finds it very difficult to kill people above him. He is too weak when he doesn't bhop but this is mostly because of not having access to using his melee to climb walls but I feel like this would be less noticeable if reds couldn't bhop either.
Pyro, which can airblast and try and instakill the hale with map hazards.
Heavy, can camp with an engineer and bhop off the knockback if he gets hit.
Engie, who's whole point is to camp anyway.
And sniper, see above.
Hale can quite easily jump away from map hazards and bhopping just makes it more difficult for Pyros to get the opportunity in the first place.
Heavies, Snipers, and Engies camping and delaying is what makes the LR boring and hated among players who die early in the round (admittedly, medics being able to revive would make it less boring to wait but they often get targeted at the start of the round anyway).

For newer players, bhopping is very infuriating as it seems very unfair (and it is, Hales who bhop win most of the time while Hales who don't lose most of the time) and trying to avoid Hale often makes players shout at them in chat to stop camping/delaying, and leads to them breaking some sort of rule most of the time leading the VSH LR to be by far the least intuitive experience for any newcomers.

even if the hale have alot of hp cause some maps are big that make the hale hard to get the reds n sum it to that some class can pack a punch that can knockback hale farther away like the pyro airblast n the fully charged sniper rifle that can knockback the hale very far when he super jump.
Without bhop, Hale can travel long distances with or without super jump quite easily, however, it's not getting to the reds that's the issue as most of them just bhop away and the Hale has to chase them around the map always being slower than them (This happens more than you would think as most people who get randomly picked to be Hale do not know how to bhop). Hale can keep his momentum through sniper shots and can easily kill them if no one is helping them. If the team is working together, then of course Hale will struggle more but that's what makes it fun to play - sticking together and helping each other and dying as a team is much better than it is now.


Being left at spawn to die (while half you team starts their bhop to avoid getting killed by the Hale at the start), then being killed because no amount of knockback can stop Hale from getting straight to you if he is bhopping if you aren't pyro, and then having to wait 10 minutes for the round to end isn't fun and is why most players groan when VSH is picked.

I love the VSH LR but a lot of people don't and that is the issue.
 

10000 Cold Knights

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I agree that VSH2 has problems with it being imbalanced but it is a lot more balanced than the LR counterpart which heavily favours Hales who know how to bhop properly.
Not true. There are several ways to thwart a bhopping hale.
The Horsemann in the LR isn't in the greatest spot right now because when he teleports he gets a free kill if the victim is unfortunate enough to be in the air due to a very fun glitch and also he cannot climb walls with his melee (in the current version) so finds it very difficult to kill people above him.
Horsemann is arguably stronger in the LR version, as his teleport is a much more viable method of traversing certain JB maps than stock super jump (chretien and volcano in particular have particularly jump-unfriendly hallways), and can out certain engie setups that other hales normally struggle to.
Hale can quite easily jump away from map hazards and bhopping just makes it more difficult for Pyros to get the opportunity in the first place.
I don't think you're giving airblast enough credit. Even a good hale might have trouble reacting to getting puffed into sweeper, its how most of the hale rounds I've seen come to an end.
Heavies, Snipers, and Engies camping and delaying is what makes the LR boring and hated among players who die early in the round
Its a part of the game. If you don't like it, don't die. Its literally the premise of every arena-based game mode.
For newer players, bhopping is very infuriating as it seems very unfair (and it is, Hales who bhop win most of the time while Hales who don't lose most of the time) and trying to avoid Hale often makes players shout at them in chat to stop camping/delaying, and leads to them breaking some sort of rule most of the time leading the VSH LR to be by far the least intuitive experience for any newcomers.
So's the Jailbreak mode as a whole. Maybe after a couple of punishments they'll learn, maybe they won't. Regardless, it doesn't seem like bhop is the main problem there.
Hale can keep his momentum through sniper shots and can easily kill them if no one is helping them.
Sniper shots on an airborne target stop them cold. Hell, even a mini-crit boosted spy revolver can shortstop a bhopping hale.
Being left at spawn to die (while half you team starts their bhop to avoid getting killed by the Hale at the start), then being killed because no amount of knockback can stop Hale from getting straight to you if he is bhopping if you aren't pyro, and then having to wait 10 minutes for the round to end isn't fun and is why most players groan when VSH is picked.
Just follow the engies. Unless they EE to cells right away, if you can't stay away from hale just bunker up with them. Also, as I previously noted, it isn't nearly as hard as you claim to knock back a bhopping hale.
Similar to rtd in normal VSH, I don't think bhop is the real issue here. It's a team-neutral game mechanic that all classes have access to.
 
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