The Phlogistinator - Designed for Spawn-Camping?

[Wortal]

Once the Mmmph meter has been filled, it is probably not uncommon that a player will choose to activate the Phlogistinator's crit effect right next to the enemy spawn area. Because the guaranteed crits of the Phlog are much more likely to instantly kill players walking through the exit of their spawn room than a regular flame thrower, and because it's easier to kill people who just spawned and don't know much about what's outside the spawn area, it might also generally be more effective than using the Mmmph in another place, where opponents are more alert. So with this in mind, how can the phlog's intended purpose be anything but spawn-camping?

And talking about spawn-camping, what about the Stickybomb Launcher? In Meet the Demoman, we get the impression that the purpose of the stickies is to set up secret traps, but in reality the far more common application is to just fire the stickies in direct combat and detonate them as soon as possible. If one wants to actually use stickies in the most pure and traditional way, the easiest method is to place them at a spawn exit, because they are not visible for the players on the other side. Maybe this is the true purpose of the Stickybomb Launcher as well? And what about the Engineer's Sentry Gun?

There can't nothing wrong with spawn-camping, if it's done nobly. The Phlog Pyro isn't very different from a real life hunter who has had the hunting tradition passed down for generations.

 

[Tax Fraud]

You can sticky trap literally anywhere on the map, same with phlog pyro. The main difference between that and spawn camping is that there is usually only one exit, forcing the spawncamped to either walk out and die or sit in spawn all game. Also, are you implying that the meet the team videos showcase how class should be played? Does this mean you think that scout should 1v1 heavies with their bat? Or that heavies should stand still and shoot?You can still be effective with weapons if you just use your brain a little bit.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

The phlog/stickybomb launcher were not "designed" for spawn camping, no weapon was. Fact of the matter is, its easier to get kills with ANY weapon by camping a respawn point because players on the other team haven't had a chance to reposition yet and likely have their guards down, not expecting to engage an enemy so close to their spawn (especially since spawn camping is forbidden on our servers, which from what I can tell is what you're trying to overturn with this post). Imo there's nothing "Noble" about not only killing unaware enemies but also preventing them from leaving spawn and playing on the actual map. The sticky launcher is designed to be a defensive weapon, denying choke points and other key areas to enemy teams. The Phlog is one of the strongest flamethrowers for crowd control, as the sheer damage output of Mmph prevents large groups of players from simply overrunning the pyro taking a defensive position, and aids the pyro in making in offensive push against defenses that rely on numbers instead of sentry nests. That is their intended design imo, not kill farming spawning players and preventing them from playing the game.

 

[RainbowRobb]

Ooof don't let this kid know how the phlog worked pre-nerf.

 

[Wortal]

You can sticky trap literally anywhere on the map, same with phlog pyro. The main difference between that and spawn camping is that there is usually only one exit, forcing the spawncamped to either walk out and die or sit in spawn all game. Also, are you implying that the meet the team videos showcase how class should be played? Does this mean you think that scout should 1v1 heavies with their bat? Or that heavies should stand still and shoot?You can still be effective with weapons if you just use your brain a little bit.

Indeed, I wrote shortly about why it's easier to kill someone in the spawn area than elsewhere (which is why it's so popular). Yes, to an extent I am implying that haha, but of course there are many other important uses of the Stickybomb Launcher than just traps (which are often more productive). I brought up the "Meet the Demoman" because the video shapes my perception of the weapon to an extent.

The phlog/stickybomb launcher were not "designed" for spawn camping, no weapon was. Fact of the matter is, its easier to get kills with ANY weapon by camping a respawn point because players on the other team haven't had a chance to reposition yet and likely have their guards down, not expecting to engage an enemy so close to their spawn (especially since spawn camping is forbidden on our servers, which from what I can tell is what you're trying to overturn with this post). Imo there's nothing "Noble" about not only killing unaware enemies but also preventing them from leaving spawn and playing on the actual map. The sticky launcher is designed to be a defensive weapon, denying choke points and other key areas to enemy teams. The Phlog is one of the strongest flamethrowers for crowd control, as the sheer damage output of Mmph prevents large groups of players from simply overrunning the pyro taking a defensive position, and aids the pyro in making in offensive push against defenses that rely on numbers instead of sentry nests. That is their intended design imo, not kill farming spawning players and preventing them from playing the game.

With most weapons it is indeed very easy to spawncamp, but a shotgun is not as easy to kill with as, for example, a weapon that causes explosions where one only needs to aim at the ground. I intended to write an extra sentence or two about how it's easier with any weapon/ class (which is obvious) but I forgot as I added the last paragraph. The point is that an activated Phlog deals more than a regular flamethrower, which makes death more instant. I am not trying to overturn any rule, I wrote this post for fun. I agree about the Stickybomb Launcher, and the Demoman is categorized as a Defence class after all. You make a good point about the Phlog as well, it's very good at taking out groups of enemies. I wasn't arguing that the developers intended spawn-camping to be the main purpose, but rather that it's like an unintended outcome of the design, which for me at least makes it seem like the weapon is made for spawn-camping. Same with the Stickybomb Launcher.

Ooof don't let this kid know how the phlog worked pre-nerf.

I should mention that I've actually been playing since before the Phlog was released, so I know quite well how it's changed over time!

 

[Cryptolyte]

Well, it's just a w + m1 pyro's best friend