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Completed TF2 Guard Crits: Not Fair to Reds

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UberBench!

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Guard crits ruin the fun of jailbreak, as it renders rebelling (a big part of the game mode) almost useless. Rebelling is one of the reasons many people play JB, and it's part of the fun. I suggest a change that could possibly solve the discontent many people have with these crits:

In the first minute of the game, the guards are given crits. After this time, the crits are removed from the guards. This would prevent total chaos from ensuing when the round begins, and would allow some form of control to be established.
 

PicklePicklePickle

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I don't really see any problems with this. This would work really good on those maps where inmates can escape from their cell.
 

Tax Fraud

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UberBench!

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I'm not sure what you mean by this message, but I assume it's you not going to be considering it as a possible solution. This is showing how many people are unhappy with these crits, isn't it? Shouldn't something be done?
 

PicklePicklePickle

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You're comparing a completely new, and in my opinion, fair compromise with a bunch of other random threads that demonstrate how much people hate guard crits. I feel like uberbench has the right idea here: wouldn't all these threads support the idea of a compromise for guard crits?
 

PicklePicklePickle

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So I read all the declined threads and what you're saying is that you can't remove guard crits, because then blus won't have control over the reds. BUT, this compromise does give them control for the beginning of the round, and it also gives inmates the chance to actually do a successful rebel and not just immediately die from a crit.
 

UberBench!

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So I read all the declined threads and what you're saying is that you can't remove guard crits, because then blus won't have control over the reds. BUT, this compromise does give them control for the beginning of the round, and it also gives inmates the chance to actually do a successful rebel and not just immediately die from a crit.
The first minutes crits would allow control to be established, as I stated in the initial message. It wouldn't allow people to just run off when cell doors open and have a huge hide and seek game at the beginning of every round...
 

RainbowRobb

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We have attempted variances in JB modes before and they failed horribly. However, we have asked the the owner to make a non critz jb server to test the idea that it would be both populated and manageable.

The problem is that these threads are nearly always made by people who are simply not good enough to escape. So it is rare that someone is wanting to make a better mode and not just to find a way to escape through their self-constructed wall of salt.
 

UberBench!

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We have attempted variances in JB modes before and they failed horribly. However, we have asked the the owner to make a non critz jb server to test the idea that it would be both populated and manageable.

The problem is that these threads are nearly always made by people who are simply not good enough to escape. So it is rare that someone is wanting to make a better mode and not just to find a way to escape through their self-constructed wall of salt.
Even then, the servers from before, where guards did not have crits have basically become outdated now that this new guard crits idea became more prominent, and people have not been very fond of it. No crits seemed fair, but if the idea is so popular, this implements it. Also, what are these "variances" you mentioned? I'm not sure what you tried to say there.
 
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PicklePicklePickle

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We have attempted variances in JB modes before and they failed horribly. However, we have asked the the owner to make a non critz jb server to test the idea that it would be both populated and manageable.

The problem is that these threads are nearly always made by people who are simply not good enough to escape. So it is rare that someone is wanting to make a better mode and not just to find a way to escape through their self-constructed wall of salt.

I have played multiple times on no guard-crits servers as BLU. And it isn't really a problem. I don't understand what you mean by "self-constructed wall of salt" as if we don't have valid arguments for changing guard-crits. Uberbench didn't even say to remove them entirely, just keep them at the beginning of the round. The two arguments I see a lot are:
1. The ratio of guards to inmates is 1:3
2. Blus don't have control over reds

For the first point just reduce the ratio to 1:2 if it really is that much of an issue. For the second point I already said why that isn't necessarily true so I'll just quote myself.
So I read all the declined threads and what you're saying is that you can't remove guard crits, because then blus won't have control over the reds. BUT, this compromise does give them control for the beginning of the round, and it also gives inmates the chance to actually do a successful rebel and not just immediately die from a crit.
 

RainbowRobb

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I have played multiple times on no guard-crits servers as BLU. And it isn't really a problem. I don't understand what you mean by "self-constructed wall of salt" as if we don't have valid arguments for changing guard-crits. Uberbench didn't even say to remove them entirely, just keep them at the beginning of the round. The two arguments I see a lot are:
1. The ratio of guards to inmates is 1:3
2. Blus don't have control over reds

For the first point just reduce the ratio to 1:2 if it really is that much of an issue. For the second point I already said why that isn't necessarily true so I'll just quote myself.

I suggested we would try making a different server, as no one in the past has made a real suggestion like this in the past.

If you relate with the wall of salt comment, then maybe look inward. I was differentiating the OP from those people, not relating him.
 

UberBench!

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I suggested we would try making a different server, as no one in the past has made a real suggestion like this in the past.

If you relate with the wall of salt comment, then maybe look inward. I was differentiating the OP from those people, not related him.
Thank you for suggesting the idea, hopefully this works out and something gets done to possibly fix this.
 

RainbowRobb

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Even then, the servers from before, where guards did not have crits have basically become outdated now that this new guard crits idea became more prominent, and people have not been very fond of it. No crits seemed fair, but if the idea is so popular, this implements it. Also, what are these "variances" you mentioned? I'm not sure what you tried to say there.
We had tried a multiplier server or two, 10x, 100x etc to try and alter the equation to change the dynamic a bit. The servers died the day after we made them. We even tried events and tried to push the servers, but they failed and people just keep returning to the classic mode with critz. But as I said, the owner has been asked, and if one is made I'll be sure to put the IP here.
 

UberBench!

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We had tried a multiplier server or two, 10x, 100x etc to try and alter the equation to change the dynamic a bit. The servers died the day after we made them. We even tried events and tried to push the servers, but they failed and people just keep returning to the classic mode with critz. But as I said, the owner has been asked, and if one is made I'll be sure to put the IP here.
I see now, thank you. Putting the IP would definitely be appreciated.
 

UberBench!

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Hey RainbowRobb, I was just writing to ask about the state of this whole thing, and how it's coming along.
 

UberBench!

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Hey, it's been a while since something has happened with this. How is it coming along?
 
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