Declined Suggestion: Removing Player Model Alteration Perks

[Philip]

So a relatively recent issue I have been noticing far more commonly on the servers is an instance where people will modify their their player models through the plugins available. For example, there is a perk called "Extend your torso" which stretches your player model to become comically tall and disproportionate. Despite how seemingly humorous and harmless such perks are, they actually play a negative impact on the game. Whilst they may change your player model (in this case to become taller), the hit-box size does not change.

So why is this a problem?
Of course, it is common knowledge for most players that the hit-box is the defining factor in determining any registered action towards any other player, especially in terms of damage. The hit-boxes were designed to align with the player model, so hits will be registered correctly among all players. However, when the perceived player model is changed, players will be unable to distinguish between what they can and cannot hit.

For perks such as "extend your torso", perception of the head and chest hit-boxes are adversely affected.
- Classes who have the ability to headshot, such as Sniper and Spy will have trouble in effectively aiming, and are often forced to guess where the supposed "head" is
- Classes that use single shot non-splash projectiles (Flare Guns, Crossbows, Ranger Bolts, Balls, SMG's, Shotguns) will be more likely to miss with such weapons, as the torso will be confusing to aim at.
- Players on either team will have trouble seeing behind the person using the perk.

Perks that may change other aspects of the player model to a less extreme degree also have a negative effect on gameplay, as they also obscure the hit-box.

In addition to the modification of the player model itself, the modification of weapon size may also prove to obscure the hit-box. Bulky weapons such as the minigun and flamethrower when resized to be much larger, will hide certain parts of the hit-box entirely (flamethrower nozzle + tank, minigun barrel) and may prove to be a distraction to other players.

There are those that might say that might say that this thread is only applicable in servers established around a more vanilla PVP experience (2Fort, Turbine, Hightower). To which, I say that is completely valid. Gamemodes that do not revolve completely around individual vanilla skill (Jailbreak, Deathrun, Multiplied Stats, Dodgeball) aren't affected much or at all by the perks mentioned. Thus, it would be good to establish a perk usage divide among the different types of servers available.

To conclude, I propose that other perks should be established in lieu of the ones mentioned. I do not have any ideas to present at the moment of writing this, but it would be appreciated if you guys would present your own thoughts in the comments.

tl;dr Perks that misrepresent/obscure player hitboxes should be removed from servers affected by it

 

[Tax Fraud]

So a relatively recent issue I have been noticing far more commonly on the servers is an instance where people will modify their their player models through the plugins available. For example, there is a perk called "Extend your torso" which stretches your player model to become comically tall and disproportionate. Despite how seemingly humorous and harmless such perks are, they actually play a negative impact on the game. Whilst they may change your player model (in this case to become taller), the hit-box size does not change.

So why is this a problem?
Of course, it is common knowledge for most players that the hit-box is the defining factor in determining any registered action towards any other player, especially in terms of damage. The hit-boxes were designed to align with the player model, so hits will be registered correctly among all players. However, when the perceived player model is changed, players will be unable to distinguish between what they can and cannot hit.

For perks such as "extend your torso", perception of the head and chest hit-boxes are adversely affected.
- Classes who have the ability to headshot, such as Sniper and Spy will have trouble in effectively aiming, and are often forced to guess where the supposed "head" is
- Classes that use single shot non-splash projectiles (Flare Guns, Crossbows, Ranger Bolts, Balls, SMG's, Shotguns) will be more likely to miss with such weapons, as the torso will be confusing to aim at.
- Players on either team will have trouble seeing behind the person using the perk.

Perks that may change other aspects of the player model to a less extreme degree also have a negative effect on gameplay, as they also obscure the hit-box.

In addition to the modification of the player model itself, the modification of weapon size may also prove to obscure the hit-box. Bulky weapons such as the minigun and flamethrower when resized to be much larger, will hide certain parts of the hit-box entirely (flamethrower nozzle + tank, minigun barrel) and may prove to be a distraction to other players.

There are those that might say that might say that this thread is only applicable in servers established around a more vanilla PVP experience (2Fort, Turbine, Hightower). To which, I say that is completely valid. Gamemodes that do not revolve completely around individual vanilla skill (Jailbreak, Deathrun, Multiplied Stats, Dodgeball) aren't affected much or at all by the perks mentioned. Thus, it would be good to establish a perk usage divide among the different types of servers available.

To conclude, I propose that other perks should be established in lieu of the ones mentioned. I do not have any ideas to present at the moment of writing this, but it would be appreciated if you guys would present your own thoughts in the comments.

tl;dr Perks that misrepresent/obscure player hitboxes should be removed from servers affected by it

How do I pick two options ?

 

[Philip]

How do I pick two options ?

Fixed uwu

 

[Sonny]

I suggested this ages ago and got declined :/

 

[Philip]

I suggested this ages ago and got declined :/

It's probably because it turned into a shitposting thread. I don't think anyone's answers were addressed.

Hey you! yes you,

The fact blu gets resize torso and robot is unfair to play against ikr, we can too if we are donor maybe

blackwonder.tf

 

[Wanka]

Only torso resizing needs to be removed. Head resizing is fine because it's still easy to guess where the head hitbox is, and hand resizing isn't that terrible either.

 

[Benedevil]

Note that torso resizing is currently only purchasable from the store. Also in the future please refrain from adding 3 options to reduce bias. I will take all votes on option 3 as a no for now.

 

[Philip]

Note that torso resizing is currently only purchasable from the store. Also in the future please refrain from adding 3 options to reduce bias. I will take all votes on option 3 as a no for now.

Oh sorry. Should I remove the third option then, since it mainly serves as a joke?

Only torso resizing needs to be removed. Head resizing is fine because it's still easy to guess where the head hitbox is, and hand resizing isn't that terrible either.

Yeah I agree that head and hand resizing don't impact the game to the same degree as torso, but IMO I think that any advantage given by such perks should not exist.

 

[RainbowRobb]

Oh sorry. Should I remove the third option then, since it mainly serves as a joke?


Yeah I agree that head and hand resizing don't impact the game to the same degree as torso, but IMO I think that any advantage given by such perks should not exist.

The problem is that you're telling one side that they must defend their opinion. That is why the poll is unreliable. It with deter people from giving their honest opinion.

 

[Philip]

The problem is that you're telling one side that they must defend their opinion. That is why the poll is unreliable. It with deter people from giving their honest opinion.

Then the poll should be edited if this is the case.

 

[Benedevil]

Poll has been reset upon request of author

 

[Tax Fraud]

Yes, but only for torso.

 

[Philip]

Yes, but only for torso.

While I definitely agree with removing torso resizing on specific servers, I think that (again) ANY misrepresentation of the hitbox shouldn't be available to players.

A notable example second to torso is resizing the head. I mean, look at this.

The red box is a representation of where the hitbox is. The faux forehead stretches well beyond the hitbox and the cheeks and jaw extend outward, most notably from a 3/4 or side view.

(Additionally, hats will also increase in size with the head resizes. Notable examples are hats that encompass an already large area of the head such as the MONOCULUS!, the Headless Horseman's Head, the Potassium Bonnet, the War Eagle, the Beep Man, and etc.)

With classes with difficult to hit heads like demoman's slouched head (from a perspective behind the demoman) as well as soldier's head bobbing during movement, the issue is more obvious.

 

[RainbowRobb]

I think the best option would be to remove it from vanilla ctf and death match servers.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

I think the best option would be to remove it from vanilla ctf and death match servers.

Same. Its certainly not causing any harm on Jailbreak lol.

 

[Underscore]

Personally, I totally agree with removing resizing body parts. TF2 is a shooter game, and unless it's a friendly server, people are usually going to be shooting each other. However, the resizing of certain bones in the mercenaries' models makes it significantly more difficult to shoot them; especially in the head, what with head resizing making the hitbox disproportionate and the torso resizing making the head appear much higher up than where the hitbox actually is. It's mostly more difficult due to the moving of bones being disorienting, and while it's still completely possible to, say, headshot these players, they basically have to guess where the hitbox is, because even veteran players may have no idea where to shoot at.

I would not have a problem at all with removing the resizing of model bones. It was something that I, personally, had a problem with in game. However, there might be a compromise in order. I think that model resizing should be togglable; where you can use a chat command to turn it on or off, so that the donors still have these perks but not everybody has to deal with them being misleading. If it isn't possible to do this, I understand.

 

[RainbowRobb]

I talked to Bene and as of a couple of days ago, he had no plans on changing the perk.

 

[Girl]

Why keep the perk on any TF2 servers if most people want it gone? It doesn't improve the RTD servers, it just makes it more difficult to snipe against players who have it.

 

[RainbowRobb]

Why keep the perk on any TF2 servers if most people want it gone? It doesn't improve the RTD servers, it just makes it more difficult to snipe against players who have it.

Because it's a popular perk and this sample size only takes into account those who come to the forum (very few players ever come here).

 

[Girl]

Of course it's popular, it provides a mechanical advantage to those who use it. If you had a perk that gave every shot that hit you a 5% chance to do no damage then it would be popular too, but that wouldn't mean it made the game more fun. It just makes people with the perk frustrating to shoot at.