Completed Remove RTD from Deathrun

[DasMalzbier| Lazy Panda]

Basicly just a bigger version of this one:
https://blackwonder.tf/threads/remove-rtds-flying-from-deathrun-servers.984/#post-4835

After suggesting to not just remove "flying" but the whole rtd from dr, I got only positive feedback.

RTD destroys the fun in Deathrun in my opinion. There are options like flying, infinitive jumps, invisible and make the player smaller. People SPAM rtd to get these.
The whole point of Deathrun is to know them ap and envade traps. it's a mindgame between the Death and the players. But with rtd, whole traps, if not the whole map get's useless and there is nothing the Death can do about it.

Now, one might suggest to remove the "too strong" one's. But then why keep the very bad one's? Wouldn't it be fair to remove the best AND worst? Yet if we do that, there are not many left. And most of them are useless and don't improve the gameplay in any way, like frozen. So, I think it's the best to completly remove it from Deathrun. When I played regulary on Blueprint, it wasn't even there in the first place, and people still loved Deathrun.

For me, the best Deathrun is without RTD and with Bhop. The more experience the player has, the better he will get on the map. Of course, depending on the round, Bhop can give you a major advantage, but I'd still love to see it. And I'm not talking about the Bhop we have currently. I'm talking about the one who speeds you up.
But heck, that's for another thread. Here we will discuss the removal of Bhop.

Just vote below and comment if you have a different opinion or suggestion

With greeting, Malz

 

[Jasper]

I approve.

 

[Aleks]

First of all hello all. (First post on forum... yey!)

Removing RTD is spledind idea... but let's be honest here. Whole server is using RTD's, so if they actually wanted to play DR with actual challenge they wouldn't use RTD at all.

On other hand RTD its cheating AND debuffing. Its not like we're getting positives all the time and on. Necromash, Cursed, Ignite (sometimes lethal).

So why not increase chance for Debuffs? Bam. Make flying like 1% chance, but keep RTD on. Also make explosion and timebomb killing player so it's going to be real russian roulete.

TLL
Nerf chance for positive, rise for negative. RTD should stay.

About Bhop?

Damn its funny. Im going to cry if its going to be removed.
(I know how to bhop but still, nooooooo)

Sorry for bad engrish, im not native english speaker :v

 

[DasMalzbier| Lazy Panda]

First of all hello all. (First post on forum... yey!)

Removing RTD is spledind idea... but let's be honest here. Whole server is using RTD's, so if they actually wanted to play DR with actual challenge they wouldn't use RTD at all.

Some players join our servers because of the people who play there. Of course, these are players often have multiple friends who usually play on our servers. Also, RTD is not the only "extra" thing we have. For example, we have an store bot where you can buy things. This makes some player want to join our servers.

On other hand RTD its cheating AND debuffing. Its not like we're getting positives all the time and on. Necromash, Cursed, Ignite (sometimes lethal).

So why not increase chance for Debuffs? Bam. Make flying like 1% chance, but keep RTD on. Also make explosion and timebomb killing player so it's going to be real russian roulete.

TLL
Nerf chance for positive, rise for negative. RTD should stay.

Your idea is not a bad one. Actually quiet good if you think about it. I can say it because of one problem many good players face and have a hard time dealing with: Being the last one alive.

Being the last one alive usually means you have the whole, unrestricted attention of the death. It then usually takes a longer time getting past a trap, and the "fake attemps" get more risky every trap. It becomes a big mindgame. It can be a lot of fun, but there are 2 flaws:

• First, there are maps with time limit. Meaning you have limited time to play your mindgames. You either play really risky or you're dead
• Second, most people don't want to wait (too long). But by playing mindgames you usually take you time. People are bound to get upset sooner or later

Yet, you want to survive. You don't want to die to the first trap or let the "noobs" try to finish the map. But it is just so damn hard to finish it solo.

And THERE is where RTD comes to play.

You now have two options: You either play risky with the reward of passing a trap, or you play really risky with the reward of getting past a few traps. While it doesen't really make the situation for the last one better, it gives him at least an option:

To either trust his skills OR trust his luck.

Of course, it doesen't only apply to the last one alive. But it was the best example of what I could think of showing that a "nerved" RTD could even improve the gameplay experience.

The nerv also somewhat prevents people from spamming RTD, which is a good thing.

However, if we just nerv RTD, I have two suggestions:

• One, increase the damage done by bad rolls. It increases the risk of using RTD
• Two, reduce the time people have to wait for RTD. Of course, there should be still only one at the time using RTD. But by reducing the cooldown, player won't spam RTD as soon as it's over, but also don't have to wait the 30 sec before they can again hope to get a lucky RTD roll. Because some traps are almost impossible to dodge, so you mostly have to rely on RTD. And if it's a time-limited map now, it dramaticly lowers the chance of passing the trap alive. And i'm not talking about a "5 sec cooldown" here. More like a 15 - 20 sec.

What do you guys think of it? Please comment below

 

[2010wolf | Blw.tf]

Some players join our servers because of the people who play there. Of course, these are players often have multiple friends who usually play on our servers. Also, RTD is not the only "extra" thing we have. For example, we have an store bot where you can buy things. This makes some player want to join our servers.



Your idea is not a bad one. Actually quiet good if you think about it. I can say it because of one problem many good players face and have a hard time dealing with: Being the last one alive.

Being the last one alive usually means you have the whole, unrestricted attention of the death. It then usually takes a longer time getting past a trap, and the "fake attemps" get more risky every trap. It becomes a big mindgame. It can be a lot of fun, but there are 2 flaws:

• First, there are maps with time limit. Meaning you have limited time to play your mindgames. You either play really risky or you're dead
• Second, most people don't want to wait (too long). But by playing mindgames you usually take you time. People are bound to get upset sooner or later

Yet, you want to survive. You don't want to die to the first trap or let the "noobs" try to finish the map. But it is just so damn hard to finish it solo.

And THERE is where RTD comes to play.

You now have two options: You either play risky with the reward of passing a trap, or you play really risky with the reward of getting past a few traps. While it doesen't really make the situation for the last one better, it gives him at least an option:

To either trust his skills OR trust his luck.

Of course, it doesen't only apply to the last one alive. But it was the best example of what I could think of showing that a "nerved" RTD could even improve the gameplay experience.

The nerv also somewhat prevents people from spamming RTD, which is a good thing.

However, if we just nerv RTD, I have two suggestions:

• One, increase the damage done by bad rolls. It increases the risk of using RTD
• Two, reduce the time people have to wait for RTD. Of course, there should be still only one at the time using RTD. But by reducing the cooldown, player won't spam RTD as soon as it's over, but also don't have to wait the 30 sec before they can again hope to get a lucky RTD roll. Because some traps are almost impossible to dodge, so you mostly have to rely on RTD. And if it's a time-limited map now, it dramaticly lowers the chance of passing the trap alive. And i'm not talking about a "5 sec cooldown" here. More like a 15 - 20 sec.

What do you guys think of it? Please comment below

how about the last player alive in red gets some extra movement speed (which could be set later if you think this is a good idea), to make it a little harder for the death to kill him, and make it fair for the last player alive to have a chance to go past/juke some traps.

since he will be the only one which the death will focus on.

just to make sure that in the minigame the death won't be in a disadvantage, even death will have the same extra movement speed as the last red, or both of them will be set to an equal amount of movement speed.

(yes i understand that if it was a scout it will be too unfair, because he will be too fast, so we will not include the scout in the movement speed buff, and if we did we will make it 1/5 or 1/6 of the original set extra movement speed that we will agree on later) ##ofc that will happen if we won't make both (last red and the death) of them have the same movement speed.##

 

[Buster]

+1 for nerfing rtd. lower the chance of flying and no gravity greatly. Make timebomb, firebomb, freezebomb a thing in red. Take out explode from both sides aswell as infinite ammo and other stuff that changes nothing in the gameplay. Keep the small player, powerful hits and everything else like dispenser and sentry spawn. I'll try to make a list of what should happen to effects later. bear with me.

Actually I think we should disable rtd for the death. But I'll come back and think about this a little more.

As for bhop, some kind of bhop needs to be on the server. If you can make it like hmxgaming so it's not fully automatic and therefor takes a bit more skill, okay. But otherwise bhop is essential.

 

[Aleks]

Nerf is best option imo. Removing something that provides popularity might be pretty pointless.

 

[Jasper]

Nerf is best option imo. Removing something that provides popularity might be pretty pointless.

im pretty sure the thing that provides popularity is the fact that the servers are almost always populated with people, not the practical gamble to gain an advantage

 

[Man of Feels]

does that mean rtd isnt coming back?

 

[Buster]

Okay so here we go, what effects/perks should be enabled in Deathrun. Note, you can't just change the chance of certain perks being rolled, you'd have to rewrite the plugin.
https://bitbucket.org/Phil25/rtd/ra...920659582a0e79/configs/rtd2_perks.default.cfg

0. Godmode: Enabled
1. Toxi Pretty much useless but since it's a visual effect it should stay, Enabled
2. Lucky Sandvich: Enabled
3. Increased Speed: Since this doesn't work, Disabled
4. Flying: Disabled (everywhere else too please)
5. Low Gravity: Enabled
6. Full Übercharge: Disabled
7. Invisibility: Enabled
8. Infinite Cloak: Disabled
9. Criticals: Enabled
10. Infinite Ammo: Disabled
11. Scary Bullets: Enabled
12. Spawn Sentry: Enabled
13. Homing Projectiles: Disabled
14. Full Rifle Charge: Disabled
15. Explode: Disabled
16. Snail: Enabled
17. Frozen: Enabled
18. Timebomb: Enabled (lethal)
19. Ignition: Enabled (not lethal)
20. Low Health: Enabled
21. Drugged: Enabled
22. Blind: Enabled
23. Strip to Melee: Disabled
24. Beacon: Enabled
25. Forced Taunt: Enabled
26. Monochromia: Enabled
27. Earthquake: Disabled (annoying as f)
28. Funny Feeling: Enabled
29. Bad Sauce: Enabled
30. Spawn Dispenser: Enabled
31. Infinite Double Jump: Disabled
32. Powerful Hits: Enabled
33. Big Head: Enabled
34. Tiny Mann: Enabled
35. Firework: Enabled (not lethal)
36. Deadly Voice: Enabled
37. Strong Gravity: Enabled
38. Eye for an Eye: Disabled
39. Weakened: Enabled
40. Necro Mash: Enabled
41. Extra Ammo: Disabled
42. Suffocation: Enabled (lethal)
43. Fast Hands: Enabled
44. Outline: Enabled
45. Vital: Enabled
46. No Gravity: Disabled
47. Team Criticals: Enabled
48. Fire Timebomb: Enabled (lethal)
49. Fire Breath: Enabled
50. Strong Recoil: Disabled
51. Cursed: Enabled
52. Extra Throwables: Enabled
53. PowerPlay: Enabled
54. Explosive Arrows: Disabled
55. Incline Problem: Disabled
​

If we count all not negative effects positive then -> 17 negative / 22 positive (Counted Outline, Beacon and some others negative instead of neutral since it's dr...)

 

[DasMalzbier| Lazy Panda]

I have some questions of what these effect do. Otherwise, I'll give my opinion on each one:

Edit 1: Updated a bit. Still need to look up the effect I don't know.

Edit 2: Looked up the one's I didn't know.

0. Godmode: Enabled - Yes
1. Toxic : Pretty much useless but since it's a visual effect it should stay, Enabled - Yes
2. Lucky Sandvich: Enabled - Yes
3. Increased Speed: Since this doesn't work, Disabled - Yes
4. Flying: Disabled (everywhere else too please) - Yes
5. Low Gravity: Enabled - Yes
6. Full Übercharge: Disabled - Yes
7. Invisibility: Enabled - Yes
8. Infinite Cloak: Disabled - Yes
9. Criticals: Enabled - Yes
10. Infinite Ammo: Disabled - Yes
11. Scary Bullets: Enabled - Well fine, yes. It does no harm adding them
12. Spawn Sentry: Enabled - Yes
13. Homing Projectiles: Disabled - Yes
14. Full Rifle Charge: Disabled - Yes
15. Explode: Disabled - Still no. While yes, other rolls like timebomb encourages you to move, I still think it should be kept. In my opinion, RTD should NOT be something that gives the players mostly an advantage. It should be a riky option to "maybe" get an advantage. So by leaving explode enabled, you increase the risk that you get a bad, lethal roll. It make you think twice if you really want to RTD. Also, if we decide to be really mean, is there a possibility to damage the players arround the one who exploded? Not that I think it's a "have to", but if we decide to add it, I think the players will be even more cautious about using RTD.
16. Snail: Enabled - Yes
17. Frozen: Enabled - Yes
18. Timebomb: Enabled (lethal) - Yes
19. Ignition: Enabled (not lethal) - Yes
20. Low Health: Enabled - Yes
21. Drugged: Enabled - Yes
22. Blind: Enabled - Yes
23. Strip to Melee: Disabled - Yes
24. Beacon: Enabled - Yes
25. Forced Taunt: Enabled - Yes
26. Monochromia: Enabled - Yes
27. Earthquake: Disabled (annoying as f) - Yes
28. Funny Feeling: Enabled - Yes
29. Bad Sauce: Enabled - Yes
30. Spawn Dispenser: Enabled - Yes
31. Infinite Double Jump: Disabled - Yes
32. Powerful Hits: Enabled - No. No visuals and rarely usefull.
33. Big Head: Enabled - Yes
34. Tiny Mann: Enabled - Yes
35. Firework: Enabled (not lethal) - Yes, but make it lethal
36. Deadly Voice: Enabled - Yes
37. Strong Gravity: Enabled - Yes
38. Eye for an Eye: Disabled (What does this do anyways?) - Yes
39. Weakened: Enabled - No. It's useless. Most traps kill you instantly, others over time. It doesen't matter if it's quicker or not.
40. Necro Mash: Enabled - Yeah, but don't make this one lethal. Just big damage
41. Extra Ammo: Disabled - Yes
42. Suffocation: Enabled (lethal) - Yes
43. Fast Hands: Enabled - Yes
44. Outline: Enabled - Maybe. I mean, is that really necessary? The death can already see though walls, and why would the own teammates want to see trough walls? But we could keep it so we don't have too many negative rolls.
45. Vital: Enabled - Yes, but only if the player doesn't have to "heal" his new extra health. Make him full HP if we rolls it.
46. No Gravity: Disabled - Yes
47. Team Criticals: Enabled - Yes
48. Fire Timebomb: Enabled (lethal) - Yes
49. Fire Breath: Enabled - Yes
50. Strong Recoil: Disabled - Yes
51. Cursed: Enabled - Yes
52. Extra Throwables: Enabled - Yes
53. PowerPlay: Enabled - It'll be OP, but yes
54. Explosive Arrows: Disabled - Yes
55. Incline Problem: Disabled - Yes

​

 

[Buster]

You can go in game and use sm_perks to see what each effect does or just use the link in my comment... :d

Low gravity and Strong gravity are okay, they won't lead to exploiting and they're a bit fun.
Criticals is for visuals, a lot of stuff what I say should be enabled is because it has some kind of visual effect and it's worth having it so people don't just get lucky or unlucky but can get nothing out of their rolls.
Scary Bullets - same, if we take these out there will be very few perks...
Explode is just as annoying as earthquake, timebomb and these would be already lethal, and unlike explode, timebomb encourages moving before you die. You can see why that is useful.

Powerful Hits can be useful, but if you really really want that could be disabled too because unlike criticals it has no visual effects.
Firework, well mehh, could make it lethal. It's fun either way.

 

[DasMalzbier| Lazy Panda]

You can go in game and use sm_perks to see what each effect does or just use the link in my comment... :d

I actually clicked the link, but I was too lazy to read trough it. Did it now.

 

[Buster]

One more thing, RTD should be disabled for the death. A lot of stuff will be lethal here, and most people won't be able to restrain themselves from using rtd and dying mid round thus ruining the experience. The deaths job is to use the traps anyways, not to spawn dispensers.

 

[Benedevil]

Buster's list has been put into effect.