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Accepted Remove jb_carnival_v2b

Keres

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I am suggesting that we remove carnival from the US Jailbreak rotation. There is no denying that the map offers a decent jailbreak experience and has plenty of minigames to experience. However, there are still several issues with the map. It consistently crashes a full server when certain Last Requests are picked, such as valve SMG, Valve rocket launcher, Class wars and so forth. The content the map offers is outweighed by the problems it causes.

To add on to what's been said. Carnival has a system in place where only 1 minigame can be played at a time. This is somewhat problematic due to button griefing. If someone has button griefed the BLUs must locate the minigame that has been turned on and disable it, causing round delay.
 
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Benedevil

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"It consistently crashes a full server when certain Last Requests are picked, such as valve SMG, Valve rocket launcher,"

This phrase explains a lot. Valve Rocket Launcher produces MASSIVE amount of edicts. Carnival, due to being big, has big amount of edicts. Rockets being shot are filling this limit and causing server to crash. I don't see what's the point of removing a map if it's plugin's fault. It should be regulated instead and either disable these Last Requests on that map or just replace VRL with something else
I just loaded up the map on the server with just me on and nothing else.
The entity count is already at 1980. Which is far too close to 2048 (the game's limit) So having 32 players on, with weapons will already add enough entities to reach this limit.
I went into this thinking I will have to do some changes to certain LRs, which certainly I still have to do.
I believe the map is of high quality, but sadly we are limited by the hard coded value of 2048 entities. This map would sadly not even function without any plugins on a server with 32 players.
 

Benedevil

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1667732072950.jpeg

Entity count for reference
 

gusic

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The entity count is already at 1980. Which is far too close to 2048 (the game's limit)
The 1980 count is including non-networked entities such as logic_relay, which are in their own separate limit of 2048.
(For clarification, edicts are networked entities, which is what most entities are classified as.)

sv_dump_edicts shows 1571 round-start edicts in Carnival (before point_template reductions).
report_entities shows 1519 mid-round edicts in Carnival (after point_template reductions).
Carnival's round-start count is 477 edicts away from the 2048 limit.
Carnival's mid-round count is 529 edicts away from the 2048 limit.
sv_dump_edicts.png
report_entities.png


I went into this thinking I will have to do some changes to certain LRs, which certainly I still have to do.
The issue is a mix of both the plugin and the amount of free edicts in Carnival.

Jailbreak Redux regenerates players for most Last Requests, which doubles player edicts for 1 tick (think 64 players instead of 32 for those few milliseconds).
With Engineer having the highest base amount of edicts, each Engineer can create the following edicts in 1 tick:
  • 2: "player" entity & character model
  • 6: Shotgun, pistol, wrench, Construction PDA, Destruction PDA, Toolbox
  • 6: Three unusual cosmetics (prop_dynamic Cosmetic + info_particle_system Unusual)
  • 1: Active weapon is an Unusual
This totals to an absolute maximum of 15 edicts per player within that 1 tick.
The absolute minimum created is 8 edicts in 1 tick assuming all players are stock Engineer.

Regenerating 32 Engineers who create 15 edicts each leads to 960 edicts being generated for 1 tick, so any map that does not use ≤1088 edicts mid-round could potentially crash under Jailbreak Redux.
Assuming all players are wearing stock, regenerating 32 Engineers who create 8 edicts each leads to 512 edicts being generated in 1 tick, which crashes all maps that do not use ≤1536 edicts mid-round.

The 960 and 512 counts become 480 and 256 immediately on the next tick as Jailbreak Redux deletes the unused extra edicts.
However, the limit only needs to be exceeded once at any point of time to crash the Source engine.
 
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Benedevil

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You were in fact compeltely right and I was on the wrong track.
The issues mainly stem from the LRs. I have put some sort of workaround on, which I will have to live test sadly, as I can't really re-create conditions with 32 players + cosmetics.

I will re-instate the map for the time being, but will keep this thread up for debate, bearing in mind now that the crashes are my programming's fault
 

Percy

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Despite the map having no issues plugins wise regarding Bene's programming, it's almost universally agreed by the people that frequent Blw JB that it's one of the most unfun maps to play on. And is almost immediately RTV'd by everyone after a round or two. While I disagree with reinstating the map, it should be clear from the posts upvotes that not many people desired it's return.
I don't understand the need to reinstate a removed map if the community widely agreed for its removal outside crashing issues edicts wise.
 

Peter

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Despite the map having no issues plugins wise regarding Bene's programming, it's almost universally agreed by the people that frequent Blw JB that it's one of the most unfun maps to play on. And is almost immediately RTV'd by everyone after a round or two. While I disagree with reinstating the map, it should be clear from the posts upvotes that not many people desired it's return.
I don't understand the need to reinstate a removed map if the community widely agreed for its removal outside crashing issues edicts wise.
The reason keres made this post was because of the crashing. The map has creative minigames and it looks amazing.
 

Keres

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The reason keres made this post was because of the crashing. The map has creative minigames and it looks amazing.
Bonzo below will always be my fave box game because i feel like its actually based off skill on my ping, the climb is creative (altho instakill is annoying) and some of the other games are interesting, the only issue with carnival, lunapark and a few other maps is if you have new/inexperienced BLUs then its a bad experience for reds
 

Pienamai

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The map is honestly pretty creative and interesting, the only thing holding it back is the edict limit
If the crashing issue was fixed, I feel it'll be unfair to judge whether to keep this map based on this thread due to it already gaining a lot of upvotes although the issue was fixed
 

Unicake2

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Map had problems in the beginning, now it's fixed. Offers a lot of unique minigames, a fun rebelling secret with collecting 5 tickets to become a boss, nice soundtrack. Nobody has complained about this map on the community I play on since bonzo below crashing has been fixed

Also should be very telling when the person mainly rooting for this thread went on the Panda Discord (Where he knew the carnival mapper frequents) and posted about the map getting removed on this community and tried to be snarky towards the mapper with the sole intention to sour his and everyone else's mood.
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Percy

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Map had problems in the beginning, now it's fixed. Offers a lot of unique minigames, a fun rebelling secret with collecting 5 tickets to become a boss, nice soundtrack. Nobody has complained about this map on the community I play on since bonzo below crashing has been fixed

Also should be very telling when the person mainly rooting for this thread went on the Panda Discord (Where he knew the carnival mapper frequents) and posted about the map getting removed on this community and tried to be snarky towards the mapper with the sole intention to sour his and everyone else's mood.
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Why aren't you showing the conversations regarding blw players as a whole from said panda discord prior to me even showing everyone the map got removed?

Clearly you all mentioned me first before I ever said anything. Now I can't be snarky back?
 

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Mellow Yellow

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I am suggesting that we remove carnival from the US Jailbreak rotation. There is no denying that the map offers a decent jailbreak experience and has plenty of minigames to experience. However, there are still several issues with the map. It consistently crashes a full server when certain Last Requests are picked, such as valve SMG, Valve rocket launcher, Class wars and so forth. The content the map offers is outweighed by the problems it causes.

To add on to what's been said. Carnival has a system in place where only 1 minigame can be played at a time. This is somewhat problematic due to button griefing. If someone has button griefed the BLUs must locate the minigame that has been turned on and disable it, causing round delay.
The map is fun, as we've seen previous people state. I feel like if people played fair, knowing the maps flaws (No gamebreaking LR's, button griefing, etc.) it'd be a lot more fun. However, we know this is pretty much impossible due to trolls always existing. Regardless, it's always fun to see the map, even if it's only for a few rounds before RTV happens. Removing it outright seems a little too much; for me anyways. Hopefully the map creator fixes some issues, if that is at all possible.
 

Mellow Yellow

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The map is fun, as we've seen previous people state. I feel like if people played fair, knowing the maps flaws (No gamebreaking LR's, button griefing, etc.) it'd be a lot more fun. However, we know this is pretty much impossible due to trolls always existing. Regardless, it's always fun to see the map, even if it's only for a few rounds before RTV happens. Removing it outright seems a little too much; for me anyways. Hopefully the map creator fixes some issues, if that is at all possible.
Sadly it was already removed but I hope it returns ^
 

Keres

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Sadly it was already removed but I hope it returns ^
It was added back a few days ago.

However, an issue still remains. Whilst I do not deny that the map is enjoyable it can still be buggy, I will gather footage today but it seems that being near Obby or in that general area for too long (not sure steps to reproduce yet) starts causing people to freeze for 15-20+ seconds.
 
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