Declined Mini-Crits In Jailbreak?

[theawesomecrispy]

I know you've all had the feeling of anger when you dodge bullets expertly by all the guards, but then that one sniper gets a body shot and you instantly die. I have a suggestion to fix the burning feeling when this happens, mini-crits. Mini-crits do 35% bonus damage and do not have damage fall off like normal shots, but they do have ramp up which means guards are still rewarded for getting those up close and personal shots. Tell me what you think in the comments, i think this is a good compromise to the controversial criticals in Jailbreak.

 

[Tax Fraud]

News - Let's test Jailbreak with NO CRITS!

Play a Game: Join the no crits jailbreak steam://connect/85.117.240.57:27035 IP: 85.117.240.57:27035 Continue reading...

blackwonder.tf

We have a Jailbreak server with no crits.

 

[Poizen]

This wont work. I think its almost universally acknowledged at this point that Blus not having crits is a horrible idea, and at first Minicrits seem like the perfect middle ground. Except for one tiny issue, its not a middle ground.
Minicrits do an extra 35% damage, crits do an extra 200% damage, see im no expert, but something aint right here. Crits are not a good substitute since its barely any different than not having crits all together, at least in the context of jailbreak. demoknight would be unplayable on blu, and so would sniper, its already hard enough for blus to not having a sniper bhop away and surf their shots just to have him snipe them 2 minutes later.
The only thing having Mini crits would do is make it harder to mass freekill.

 

[PicklePicklePickle]

Mini-crits are a good compromise for babies who want the extra damage and for reds who see it as unfair (because it is).

This is the most basic guard crit compromise but every time I see it get brought up (not just this forum but in other forums) it gets rejected. It seems that people have a black or white perspective where it's either guards have crits, or guard don't have crits. No inbetween. So when they think of giving guards mini-crits they'd think it would play exactly the same as no-crits which is kinda stupid.

From a balance perspective giving guards mini-crits is 5 times more balanced than giving them critical hits.
Snipers seems to be the most problematic class since he can one shot anyone, but with mini-crits it's reduced to a two shot.

Crits are not a good substitute since its barely any different than not having crits all together

I hope I'm not misunderstanding this, but what you're saying is that mini-crits aren't any different from not having crits at all. Mini-crits remove damage fall-off and give you a 35% increase in damage. I don't understand how you don't see this as different from not having crits. I think you have to see the 35% increase in damage from the perspective of health. For example, the sniper body shot would do around 17 extra damage, which isn't that much. But when you consider that two shots can kill any class with 125 hp then that 35% increase in damage seems bigger.

The BIGGEST problem with this compromise has nothing to do with this compromise. It has to do with the playerbase.

NO ONE HERE HAS A PROBLEM WITH GUARD CRITS.

That's the biggest problem. I've already explained this with no-crit jailbreak servers.
"Most of the playerbase in BlackWonder is already used to crits, so people who regularly go blu have no incentive to switch to the no crits server. A no crit server will NEVER work for BlackWonder, ever. People like me who only play on no crit JB servers have already kept a mental note that BlackWonder has crits, so the only people who would be playing on the no crit server would be regulars. And since they're regulars, that probably means they have no problem with guard crits."

If BlackWonder does another experimental server where they do this mini-crit compromise they're gonna experience the same problem that the no-crit server has experienced. No one is going to play on it. The people who play Jailbreak here prefer playing with guard crits. The only regulars who would even join the mini-crit JB server would be rebellers who want to see how easy it is to rebel now that guards don't have crits (I don't have a problem with this but the issue comes with the fact that no one would play as a guard).
There aren't any problems with the gameplay, it's a problem with demand. The demand for guard crits to be removed/nerfed on BlackWonder is lower than the demand for it to stay the same.

 

[Chris TCC]

This topic has been discussed a lot of times. unless a new argument is brought to the table, this will be declined. We do have a test no-crits Jb server, so feel free to play there.
The IP is 85.117.240.57:27035

Declined - JAILBREAK GUARD CRITS

its unfair give crits to guards because because the rebel players make a good strategy, they trick the guards, they get insede on the armory then he surprise the guards and die to a crit. The guards dont count the prisioners, let a prisioner escape and stay on the side of the warden the intire...

blackwonder.tf

Declined - A compromise for crits in Jailbreak

Critical hits for guards have been a debated topic before, I want to post a compromise. This is coming from a guy that only plays blue. We should have it so that critical hits have fall off damage (I don't know if this is possible coding wise). It keeps an (apparently) necessary tool for guards...

blackwonder.tf

Resolved - BlackWonderJB

i wish blackwonder jailbreak could make team Blu to not have crit because the red have 15% chance to rebell pls fix i hate it

blackwonder.tf

Declined - JB - Deactivate crits for both team when ff is on

My suggestion is that Random crits are disabled when FF is turned on just to make it more fair for Reds to do Cellwars or Hunger Games. But to make it fair for rebellers too , Crits should be diabled for guards when ff is turned on. Thanks for your time and your opinion on the topic is appreciated.

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Warden being able to turn crits on/off

So I've been holding in on this idea for quite a while now but since we've had this discussion so many times I figured why not suggest it. Why can't the warden enable and disable crits? It would make life a lot easier if it's f.e war day and we could even unban some minigames like Gladiator or...

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Remove crits for blu in jb

I get that crits for blus in jb makes it easier for them to control the reds but I think it is a bit unfair for reds that want to rebel, when you get ammo as a red it makes it harder to fight blu's because they have crits, but if you would consider removing them it would make reds be able to...

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Give warden an option to disable crits, so cellwars/arena is more balanced

What do you think? I hate cellwars for many reason, but random crits is one of the main reasons. Giving warden an option to disable them would be a wonderful thing!

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Less The Crits on Blu JB

Well i see alot of people complaining on the chat they are saying 'THEY ARE SO LUCKY CUZ THEY HAVE CRITS' and 'NICE FUCKING BODYSHOT YOUR LUCKY CUZ YOU ARE IN BLU' well this is just inappropiate for the JB Servers so please lessen the crits 10% thank you for you're time

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Giving the blus minicrits instead of crits

A sniper dealing 45 dmg at long range consistently is not balanced. And i think giving the blus mini crits would make it more fair, as it still gives them a boost but they wont be as overpowered. Like with the sniper, at long range they deal 150 dmg without even being scoped in. Or when a...

blackwonder.tf

JB needs some tweeks

alright I mean its a fun game mode with a lot of cancer but thats not what we are discussing. what we are though is the jb maps need some major tweaks 1. half the time the open or close cells command is incompatible with older maps not a problem with all but some like the Mario maps and mostly...

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Make a petition to replace crits for mini crits on guards

Make a petition/vote so that the entire JB community can decide instead of just the admins making the decisions.

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Jailbreak Crits!!

Look crits suck like a lot and they suck a lot more with a mass freekiller. If we had mini crits or no crits then that would be so good. It would make less people die as fast so you can try and kill the mass freekiller and easier to rebel since you dont die from one body shot. it would make...

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Nerf Crits to Mini-Crits (Jailbreak)

Rebelling is harder on blackwonder than anywhere else. Veterans answer, “git gud” and newbies are discouraged. Mini-crits would still give the blue team an advantage, but not to the point where a single shot eliminates the majority of the classes.

blackwonder.tf

Declined - Remove the blu 100% crits, or make it mini-crits

Its so unfair when blu's can snipe you with a shotgun, and, with those crits the chances that someone gets freekilled by a rocket or a pipe, its really big, it just makes the game so unfair, and one time some blu, just threw a rocket at me, i was playing demoknight with the chargin targe, even...

blackwonder.tf

 

[Poizen]

Mini-crits are a good compromise for babies who want the extra damage and for reds who see it as unfair (because it is).

This is the most basic guard crit compromise but every time I see it get brought up (not just this forum but in other forums) it gets rejected. It seems that people have a black or white perspective where it's either guards have crits, or guard don't have crits. No inbetween. So when they think of giving guards mini-crits they'd think it would play exactly the same as no-crits which is kinda stupid.

From a balance perspective giving guards mini-crits is 5 times more balanced than giving them critical hits.
Snipers seems to be the most problematic class since he can one shot anyone, but with mini-crits it's reduced to a two shot.



I hope I'm not misunderstanding this, but what you're saying is that mini-crits aren't any different from not having crits at all. Mini-crits remove damage fall-off and give you a 35% increase in damage. I don't understand how you don't see this as different from not having crits. I think you have to see the 35% increase in damage from the perspective of health. For example, the sniper body shot would do around 17 extra damage, which isn't that much. But when you consider that two shots can kill any class with 125 hp then that 35% increase in damage seems bigger.

The BIGGEST problem with this compromise has nothing to do with this compromise. It has to do with the playerbase.

NO ONE HERE HAS A PROBLEM WITH GUARD CRITS.

That's the biggest problem. I've already explained this with no-crit jailbreak servers.
"Most of the playerbase in BlackWonder is already used to crits, so people who regularly go blu have no incentive to switch to the no crits server. A no crit server will NEVER work for BlackWonder, ever. People like me who only play on no crit JB servers have already kept a mental note that BlackWonder has crits, so the only people who would be playing on the no crit server would be regulars. And since they're regulars, that probably means they have no problem with guard crits."

If BlackWonder does another experimental server where they do this mini-crit compromise they're gonna experience the same problem that the no-crit server has experienced. No one is going to play on it. The people who play Jailbreak here prefer playing with guard crits. The only regulars who would even join the mini-crit JB server would be rebellers who want to see how easy it is to rebel now that guards don't have crits (I don't have a problem with this but the issue comes with the fact that no one would play as a guard).
There aren't any problems with the gameplay, it's a problem with demand. The demand for guard crits to be removed/nerfed on BlackWonder is lower than the demand for it to stay the same.

It is already hard enough for blus to keep the reds in check, you also have to keep in mind that bhopping is a thing on blackwonder servers which make it way easier for reds to escape, sure a sniper can 2 shot a 125 hp class, but he would only have time for 1 shot, by the time the second shot comes around, that person would be long gone because of bhop, and even more so with the boost they get from that 1 shot, that btw, didnt kill them.
also what about an lr such as guard melee only? blu team already struggles with that now, let alone now they can 1 shot any class with a melee weapon.
you guys are complaining about crits because you guys only view crits from the perspective of reds, not the blus. Jailbreak has 2 teams you know, and 1 team has way less players so they need an amazing uperrhand considering the blu to red ratio is 1/3 (please correct me on that if i am wrong)

 

[PicklePicklePickle]

It is already hard enough for blus to keep the reds in check, you also have to keep in mind that bhopping is a thing on blackwonder servers which make it way easier for reds to escape, sure a sniper can 2 shot a 125 hp class, but he would only have time for 1 shot, by the time the second shot comes around, that person would be long gone because of bhop, and even more so with the boost they get from that 1 shot, that btw, didnt kill them.
also what about an lr such as guard melee only? blu team already struggles with that now, let alone now they can 1 shot any class with a melee weapon.
you guys are complaining about crits because you guys only view crits from the perspective of reds, not the blus. Jailbreak has 2 teams you know, and 1 team has way less players so they need an amazing uperrhand considering the blu to red ratio is 1/3 (please correct me on that if i am wrong)

"you guys only view crits from the perspective of reds" I go blu more times than I go red when I join no crits JB servers.
"something something bhop something something" I never knew that BlackWonder had bhop in JB until I played on the no crit server. I have no fucking clue who thought it was a good idea to put bhop in jailbreak.
"something about guard melee only lr" this lr sucks shrek ass. Everybody rebels, everybody. It's not meant to be fair to blus so I don't get why you're even using this as a point to keep crits.
"It is already hard enough for blus to keep the reds in check" because they don't think. And they don't really need to since they have crits. I don't know if I have the most biased experience ever but every time I play on blu in a no crit JB server it really isn't that hard to keep them in check.
You also used a point about the ratio, if you played on the no crit server that blackwonder is running the ratio has been changed from 1:3 to 1:1. Most no crit jailbreak servers I play have a ratio of 1:2 which still works.

I'm actually going to make a big mega-thread thing where I collect statistics from many different jailbreak servers to see if blus not having crits makes for bad gameplay. I'll be looking at the amount of times a rebel succeeds, amount of times a mass rebel succeeds, amount of times a mass rebel occurs, if the warden gets killed in a round, and the amount of times a round ends normally.

 

[Poizen]

bhop isnt stupid, its literally my favorite thing about blw jailbreak, and its not broken for reds since blus have it way easier since its way easier for them to gain bhop momentum, for example: rocket jumping, stickyjumping, charging, fuck it, even flare jumping, its so much easier for blus to bhop and thus catchup to any reds running away

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

You also used a point about the ratio, if you played on the no crit server that blackwonder is running the ratio has been changed from 1:3 to 1:1. Most no crit jailbreak servers I play have a ratio of 1:2 which still works.

The server limit is not the problem here. In many 1v15-20 situations there are plenty of reds that could join blue, but either can't (because they're teambanned), or more likely won't (because being a red is inherently easier than being a blue). Being a guard, a good guard, is quite challenging. Sure you have crits, and thus making kills quite easy to obtain, but look at the blue/warden rules page in comparison to the red rules. They're twice as long (and thats just whats written, you of all people should know the rules extend beyond that) and violations result in removal from the blue team instead of simply being killed. Reds being heavily favored in this manner is why the ratios are so unbalanced most of the time, people either don't feel like dealing with that many restrictions or have tried and failed. Removing or reducing crits would be a disaster for blue team because of this, no matter how many meaningless nerfs are applied to red team to "compensate."

"something about guard melee only lr" this lr sucks shrek ass. Everybody rebels, everybody. It's not meant to be fair to blus so I don't get why you're even using this as a point to keep crits.

Sure, if you can make it out of the cell block against a team of 3 or 4 critzed demoknights, then you have a good chance at being a successful rebel. Not very different from normal rounds, honestly ;p

 

[PicklePicklePickle]

bhop isnt stupid, its literally my favorite thing about blw jailbreak, and its not broken for reds since blus have it way easier since its way easier for them to gain bhop momentum, for example: rocket jumping, stickyjumping, charging, fuck it, even flare jumping, its so much easier for blus to bhop and thus catchup to any reds running away

BlackWonder has the only Jailbreak servers with bhop that I know of. It's my least favorite thing about blw jailbreak. There's no real point of arguing this since it's subjective. It's not completely subjective, but it is subjective to the point where discussing it is kinda worthless. It's kinda like, do you like pizza with or without pepperoni?

The server limit is not the problem here. In many 1v15-20 situations there are plenty of reds that could join blue, but either can't (because they're teambanned), or more likely won't (because being a red is inherently easier than being a blue). Being a guard, a good guard, is quite challenging. Sure you have crits, and thus making kills quite easy to obtain, but look at the blue/warden rules page in comparison to the red rules. They're twice as long (and thats just whats written, you of all people should know the rules extend beyond that) and violations result in removal from the blue team instead of simply being killed. Reds being heavily favored in this manner is why the ratios are so unbalanced most of the time, people either don't feel like dealing with that many restrictions or have tried and failed. Removing or reducing crits would be a disaster for blue team because of this, no matter how many meaningless nerfs are applied to red team to "compensate."

Sure, if you can make it out of the cell block against a team of 3 or 4 critzed demoknights, then you have a good chance at being a successful rebel. Not very different from normal rounds, honestly ;p

Being a good guard is challenging. That's the point. Crits make it less challenging, having more rules doesn't affect how challenging it is to be a good guard, it only affects how challenging it is to be a guard, since you have to know all the rules for being warden and being a guard.
Also, for the Guards Melee Only LR it is incredibly easy to rebel. The biggest problem with demoknight is range. As long as your a scout they can't catch up, and eventually, rebellers will out range demoknights when they break into armoury to get guns. Every time this LR gets picked red wins (with blu occasionally having a victory), which reminds me, I probably shouldn't include LR days in my statistics.
Your main point is something that both types of servers (crits and no crits) deal with, which is how red is much easier to play than blu because of how you have to know all the rules to play as blu/warden, thus causing unbalanced ratios. This is a dumb point. I never actually thought of this (because it rarely has happened in my experience) but if it is a main concern then why don't you make it where at a certain threshold (like I don't know, 1:4 ratio) guards get crits? We could actually incorporate mini-crits too in a similar fashion as how reds get crits and mini-crits in saxton hale. 1:1 and 1:2 ratio guards don't have crits. 1:3 ratio guards have mini-crits, 1:4 and above guards have crits.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

Nope.avi