Username: Jake01
What is your type of punishment?
Ban
Where were you banned from? Servers
What is your SteamID? STEAM_0:0:238707672 (Victim)
Who has punished you?
Panyo
Why were you punished?
"Lag Hack/Silent Aimbot"
Why should we revoke your punishment?
Hello,
I would like to address the most obvious issue first. This is NOT my ban; it belongs to someone else I know who was definitely banned falsely. This user tried appealing his ban before; however, it was declined: https://blackwonder.tf/threads/nighthawktvs-ban-appeal.36818/.
In this forum post, I will be defending my client, "juan" (Discord Alias), and slowly going step by step as to why he is not cheating and why the ban is unjust, while debunking the admin's accusations and common misconceptions/misinformation. I personally have 6000 hours in TF2 and a lot of background knowledge of how both the game and cheats work (I also moderate for Vorobey's server) and would like to give my insight on the evidence provided.
Starting off with the easiest accusation to prove wrong, "Silent aimbot."
To avoid excessively bloating this post with too much explanation, I will limit myself to the essential know-how about silent aimbot. Silent aimbot is a hidden aimbot that is concealed from the cheater's client-side POV, meaning that it doesn't snap on the cheater's screen; however, silent aimbot snapping is not hidden on the Server's POV (to other players). This means that whoever is watching a silent aimbot user on the spectator camera will see 2 obvious snaps, which happen in 2 server-ticks (basically you will see a 2-frame snap even on 60 fps videos). There is also an add-on feature called "pSilent," which will try to hide the aimbot snapping for the server as well, but here is the catch: pSilent has been patched for HitScan weapons in 2015 so it doesn't work for weapons such as shotguns, sniper rifles, etc., but it still works for projectile and melee weapons. More information can be found here: https://youtu.be/m2LEpXzGMPs?feature=shared
Let's take a look at the evidence provided against my client.
https://blackwonder.tf/data/video/34/34913-d8255b16a54cb5963cde2a2bfdae45da.mp4
As you can see, there is no such snapping on the spectator camera (although frantic silent aimbot snaps could have been masked by the lagging). Furthermore, the spectator POV is very inaccurate compared to that of what the client sees on his screen. For example, the spectator POV doesn't show the correctly lag-compensated models because the spectator POV shows what the server sees, and the client is always behind the server run-up time meaning what you see is the "future," while the spectated player always seems to shoot next to them and still deal damage. The more ping the individual has, the more noticeable this will be, and it is perfectly normal. The projectiles flying away from the crosshair are caused by multiple factors here, most prominently, his latency.
Admin's claims/debunks:
"You actually had around 200 ping..."
The ping meter in TF2 (Scoreboard, console, net_graph) shows the estimated round-trip time of the packets (the time that it takes for a packet to reach the server and vice versa). HOWEVER, it matters where you check the ping. The round trip time of ping displayed in the net_graph is the most accurate ping indicator, which is only visible on his end. The scoreboard ping shows a number close to that but slightly under, and the console ping displays a number higher than both estimates. Meaning that whatever number the admin got was likely very false, especially when we take into account the frequent ping spikes the victim was experiencing.
"...you spiking around everywhere 1 frame per sec"
It is not uncommon to lag consistently with bad internet; just because someone is having some loss doesn't mean he is fake lagging.
Moving on to the fake lag accusation.
The fake lag cheat feature works by choking and unchoking packets at the same interval, which leads to teleporting-like behavior. The amount of packets that can be choked is limited to ~23 ticks/packets (which is the equivalent of 345 milliseconds of in-game time on standard 66.7 tickrate servers). The goal is to make the fake lag user harder to be hit by teleporting and even breaking lag compensation. But here is the catch: Fake lag makes the cheater ONLY lag on the server, while the cheater's client doesn't experience the lagging on his screen (similar to how silent looks like with the snapping), but smooth and normal movement instead.
If we look at the evidence provided against my client once more, we can see him lagging at a pretty constant rate. So, fake lag confirmed, right? No. As I've explained above, fakelag hides the teleporting on the cheater's screen and not on the server, meaning to fully confirm he is fake lagging, we need a recording of his client-side POV. Luckily for us, we have some counter evidence:
https://blackwonder.tf/data/video/34/34913-d8255b16a54cb5963cde2a2bfdae45da.mp4 (client-side personal demo)
https://youtu.be/AVVvVH8Ipl8?si=_EDD4HrL6SEWgr5U (Live recording with net_graph 4)
As we can see, he is experiencing lag on the client. Meaning this is NOT fake lag. If we take time to analyze the net_graph in the live recording, we can easily confirm that it is a problem with his internet.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1121780046928023613/1228421774031716366/2024-04-12_21_08_24-2024-04-12_21_02_00-4_Lag_recreation_-_YouTube_Mozilla_Firefox.png_-_Paint.png?ex=662bfbed&is=661986ed&hm=88261fd2fbb6fec1b201c0b691189260ad8a0803fd16ed391eaa0e9871fafd77&
Gaps in the graph (marked with red lines) indicate dropped/lost packets. This could many reasons for example network congestion, crappy wireless WiFi, etc. We can also see his real ping which spikes heavily due to the loss adding a lot of input delay, which is very noticeable when he is shooting his rocket launcher. That's because projectile in TF2 are not lag compensated, and they only start flying after latency and interp delay. The graph at the very bottom shows that the client exceeds the interpolation/extrapolation time frame which causes serious stuttering on the client, similarly like he did in the recorded footage. Also fake lag won't give the user packet loss on the net_graph or cause the ping to magically spike.
In my opinion, this individual is not cheating, and the victim was simply very unlucky with his internet, which ultimately led to him being falsely banned.
What is your type of punishment?
Ban
Where were you banned from? Servers
What is your SteamID? STEAM_0:0:238707672 (Victim)
Who has punished you?
Panyo
Why were you punished?
"Lag Hack/Silent Aimbot"
Why should we revoke your punishment?
Hello,
I would like to address the most obvious issue first. This is NOT my ban; it belongs to someone else I know who was definitely banned falsely. This user tried appealing his ban before; however, it was declined: https://blackwonder.tf/threads/nighthawktvs-ban-appeal.36818/.
In this forum post, I will be defending my client, "juan" (Discord Alias), and slowly going step by step as to why he is not cheating and why the ban is unjust, while debunking the admin's accusations and common misconceptions/misinformation. I personally have 6000 hours in TF2 and a lot of background knowledge of how both the game and cheats work (I also moderate for Vorobey's server) and would like to give my insight on the evidence provided.
Starting off with the easiest accusation to prove wrong, "Silent aimbot."
To avoid excessively bloating this post with too much explanation, I will limit myself to the essential know-how about silent aimbot. Silent aimbot is a hidden aimbot that is concealed from the cheater's client-side POV, meaning that it doesn't snap on the cheater's screen; however, silent aimbot snapping is not hidden on the Server's POV (to other players). This means that whoever is watching a silent aimbot user on the spectator camera will see 2 obvious snaps, which happen in 2 server-ticks (basically you will see a 2-frame snap even on 60 fps videos). There is also an add-on feature called "pSilent," which will try to hide the aimbot snapping for the server as well, but here is the catch: pSilent has been patched for HitScan weapons in 2015 so it doesn't work for weapons such as shotguns, sniper rifles, etc., but it still works for projectile and melee weapons. More information can be found here: https://youtu.be/m2LEpXzGMPs?feature=shared
Let's take a look at the evidence provided against my client.
https://blackwonder.tf/data/video/34/34913-d8255b16a54cb5963cde2a2bfdae45da.mp4
As you can see, there is no such snapping on the spectator camera (although frantic silent aimbot snaps could have been masked by the lagging). Furthermore, the spectator POV is very inaccurate compared to that of what the client sees on his screen. For example, the spectator POV doesn't show the correctly lag-compensated models because the spectator POV shows what the server sees, and the client is always behind the server run-up time meaning what you see is the "future," while the spectated player always seems to shoot next to them and still deal damage. The more ping the individual has, the more noticeable this will be, and it is perfectly normal. The projectiles flying away from the crosshair are caused by multiple factors here, most prominently, his latency.
Admin's claims/debunks:
"You actually had around 200 ping..."
The ping meter in TF2 (Scoreboard, console, net_graph) shows the estimated round-trip time of the packets (the time that it takes for a packet to reach the server and vice versa). HOWEVER, it matters where you check the ping. The round trip time of ping displayed in the net_graph is the most accurate ping indicator, which is only visible on his end. The scoreboard ping shows a number close to that but slightly under, and the console ping displays a number higher than both estimates. Meaning that whatever number the admin got was likely very false, especially when we take into account the frequent ping spikes the victim was experiencing.
"...you spiking around everywhere 1 frame per sec"
It is not uncommon to lag consistently with bad internet; just because someone is having some loss doesn't mean he is fake lagging.
Moving on to the fake lag accusation.
The fake lag cheat feature works by choking and unchoking packets at the same interval, which leads to teleporting-like behavior. The amount of packets that can be choked is limited to ~23 ticks/packets (which is the equivalent of 345 milliseconds of in-game time on standard 66.7 tickrate servers). The goal is to make the fake lag user harder to be hit by teleporting and even breaking lag compensation. But here is the catch: Fake lag makes the cheater ONLY lag on the server, while the cheater's client doesn't experience the lagging on his screen (similar to how silent looks like with the snapping), but smooth and normal movement instead.
If we look at the evidence provided against my client once more, we can see him lagging at a pretty constant rate. So, fake lag confirmed, right? No. As I've explained above, fakelag hides the teleporting on the cheater's screen and not on the server, meaning to fully confirm he is fake lagging, we need a recording of his client-side POV. Luckily for us, we have some counter evidence:
https://blackwonder.tf/data/video/34/34913-d8255b16a54cb5963cde2a2bfdae45da.mp4 (client-side personal demo)
https://youtu.be/AVVvVH8Ipl8?si=_EDD4HrL6SEWgr5U (Live recording with net_graph 4)
As we can see, he is experiencing lag on the client. Meaning this is NOT fake lag. If we take time to analyze the net_graph in the live recording, we can easily confirm that it is a problem with his internet.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1121780046928023613/1228421774031716366/2024-04-12_21_08_24-2024-04-12_21_02_00-4_Lag_recreation_-_YouTube_Mozilla_Firefox.png_-_Paint.png?ex=662bfbed&is=661986ed&hm=88261fd2fbb6fec1b201c0b691189260ad8a0803fd16ed391eaa0e9871fafd77&
Gaps in the graph (marked with red lines) indicate dropped/lost packets. This could many reasons for example network congestion, crappy wireless WiFi, etc. We can also see his real ping which spikes heavily due to the loss adding a lot of input delay, which is very noticeable when he is shooting his rocket launcher. That's because projectile in TF2 are not lag compensated, and they only start flying after latency and interp delay. The graph at the very bottom shows that the client exceeds the interpolation/extrapolation time frame which causes serious stuttering on the client, similarly like he did in the recorded footage. Also fake lag won't give the user packet loss on the net_graph or cause the ping to magically spike.
In my opinion, this individual is not cheating, and the victim was simply very unlucky with his internet, which ultimately led to him being falsely banned.
