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Declined dr_cocainum

Remove it or Keep it?

  • Either is fine

    Votes: 4 23.5%
  • Remove it

    Votes: 7 41.2%
  • Keep it

    Votes: 6 35.3%

  • Total voters
    17
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DasMalzbier| Lazy Panda

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#1
Hey everyone,

this is more of a discussion that a suggestion, but oh well.

So the issue is:

There are player, like me and @Botar230 who really dislike dr_cocainum.

The reason for this is the huge amount of chance traps the cause delay.

More than often, you see players doodling 4 minutes around a chance trap, usually the Justin/Friday/Romney door. Previous chance traps can be skipped if you can skilled enough.

@Botar230 asked for the removal of this map in this thread. But it was declined after @Buster butted in (I hope you don't take that as an insult :p).

Since I did not want the other thread spammed with an unnecessary discussion whether or not it should be removed, I decided it would be for the best to make a separate thread about it.

I'll quickly go over the pros and cons so everyone can make their own opinion about it:

Pro:
+Very popular map. Almost always nominated
+Fun minigame(s)

Neutral:
* out of the 4 chance traps, 2 can be rendered useless if you play with someone with experience. But even if you know how to skip them, you will die 40% of the time. It is not easy to do it

Cons:
- 4 chance traps
- Can cause huge delays

Other notes:
Necromash is the best RTD on this map.

Now I will ask anyone who knows this map (and occasionally plays it) to cast their votes.

Also, and questions, thoughts or angry replies, please comment below!

Malz
 

Buster

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#2
Why would we remove a popular map. It's not bad it's just overplayed. We remove bad maps not overplayed ones.

We have 4 EU dr servers, try to find one that's not running cocainum and start to nominate your own maps.
 
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DasMalzbier| Lazy Panda

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#3
I am fine either way. Though I personally do not like the map too much, I can not look away from the fact that it is very popular among our dr players.

So I thought the easiest way to resolve this discussion is by adding a vote poll. Those who care to remove/keep it will give their opinion.
 

Noodl

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#4
That's like saying remove plr_highertower.

It may be a bad map by elitist opinion, but it's the startup map for all of our DR servers.
Has been since Blueprint.
 

Alex™

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#5
Instead of removing or having 10 pages of replys talking about 103+ reasons why it should stay, how about I fix it, or have wolf maybe fix?(sense he knows more about triggers than me:p)
 

DasMalzbier| Lazy Panda

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#6
That's like saying remove plr_highertower.

It may be a bad map by elitist opinion, but it's the startup map for all of our DR servers.
Has been since Blueprint.
I do not think it does really matter if it has been there since Blueprint or not. Maps are getting removed, fixed and added all the time.

And it may be that only the "elitist" think bad of this map. But even if, in the end, I do believe that a simple poll will resolve this matter.

Note that this is not the first time the matter of this map has been brought up to me. It is easy to say "just deal with it" but I value the opinion of the more active player more than you average player. Not to say that we should rearrange Blackwonder in their opinion and needs, but as for removing this map, I though it would be best for both sides to settle this in a poll. If you average player does not really care if that map gets removed or not, would it really hurt to remove it?

On a mental note, though I see no problems with my arguments, arguing against Noodl never ended good for me..

Instead of removing or having 10 pages of replys talking about 103+ reasons why it should stay, how about I fix it, or have wolf maybe fix?(sense he knows more about triggers than me:p)
103+ reasons... if someone can actually list those, then congratulations, you just made me care about this map.

Also, the only way to fix the chance traps would be to replace them. Sure, you could make all chance traps 50/50 instead of 1/3, but the problem would still be there: too many chance traps.

If Wolf would be up for it (with some good ideas), sure, he can do that. I would support it.
 

Buster

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#7
Removing the auto traps is not a fix, it's changing the map. Might as well give it another name. @DeadGaming666 tried to fix the map, we fixed a lot of exploits and changed some traps but never significantly, in our opinion you have to respect the original creator and not edit half his map away.

We literally have 4 EU deathrun servers, and your only reason to remove cocainum is your personal preference. And no, a vote here is not representative of the deathrun community at all.

There are lots of better maps, but cocainum is not a bad map, we have never ever removed not bad maps and I don't see why we should go against the majority and reason and start removing very popular, okay maps.
 
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DasMalzbier| Lazy Panda

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#8
It seems that this is one of the topics where our opinions differ @Buster . Also, I take slight offense to one of your statements. But that's not too important.

Removing the auto traps is not a fix, it's changing the map. Might as well give it another name.
@DeadGaming666 tried to fix the map, we fixed a lot of exploits and changed some traps but never significantly, in our opinion you have to respect the original creator and not edit half his map away.
And maybe I phrased it wrongly: The only was I see to fix the chance traps are to remove/replace them. It was not meant to be seen as the "only way to fix this map". Of course I respect the original creator of every map and I do not want to edit half the map away. I simply see no other solution for me to fix the map. The main problem I and other people have with this map is the amount of chance traps. And what other ways are there to fix chance traps without replacing or removing them? If there is another solution which would both resolve my and other people's problems with this map, I'll gladly listen.

We literally have 4 EU deathrun servers, and your only reason to remove cocainum is your personal preference. And no, a vote here is not representative of the deathrun community at all.
And it is not because of my personal preference that I started this thread. If you would have looked at the votes, hell, at my comments you could clearly see that I can see the upsides of the maps. My stand is neutral, even if I personally dislike this map. But my personal opinion does not matter here. I stated what I think as a staff member, not as a person.

Also, your logic also applies for jb and vsh maps. There were jailbreak and vsh maps removed and added, for example this one.

There are lots of better maps, but cocainum is not a bad map, we have never ever removed not bad maps and I don't see why we should go against the majority and reason and start removing very popular, okay maps.
You like cocainum, I don't. Your think cocainum is not a bad map, I think it is. And from the votes until now, the majority wants to remove it. There are reason for and against removing it. It is up for every single person to decide whether they think the map is good or bad, whether to keep it or remove it.

@Buster our opinions of the map is different. But that is ok. Our votes do not hold any more value than any other person's in this matter. We are not the one to decide this. If not for some people on my friendslist, I would probably never have started this thread.

Also, to make things more fair, starting tomorrow, I will make announcements on the server about the ongoing discussion/vote of cocainum. I will not be on the server all the time, but hopefully I can bring some people to cast their votes too. I want to believe that those who care will cast their votes.

Note to self (and others): Maybe I am exaggerating things, but since it does not hurt anyone besides my free time, who cares?^^
 

Noodl

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#9
Its issue of vocal minority, silent majority, on the forums.

If it was really a bad map, it wouldn't be one of the most players maps on DR. That was my point about Blueprint, that it's stayed extremely popular since then.

We had HLStats we could actually see map player stats, but hey ho.
 

Buster

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#10
The only was I see to fix the chance traps are to remove/replace them.
Yes, and that's what I said is a bit too much for me personally. That's what I called is editing half the map away and completely changes how the original creator intended his map to be played.
My stand is neutral, even if I personally dislike this map.
You like cocainum, I don't. Your think cocainum is not a bad map, I think it is.
I don't like it, I never vote for it. I said there are far better maps, I just think we shouldn't remove a very popular, okay map because that makes no sense. I'm not biased like you right now, I'm the objective, experienced voice telling you people that this doesn't make any sense.
There were jailbreak and vsh maps removed and added, for example this one
Adding maps is okay, but removing... No one has ever removed a popular, arguably well made map without a very good reason like game breaking exploits that no one fixed.
Our votes do not hold any more value than any other person's in this matter. We are not the one to decide this.
Yes they do, we're supposed to make decisions that benefit the community. We are exactly the people who should make a decision. That's one of the things that we have to do is to work together and make decisions for people when you can't ask every deathrun regular about something.

Finally, I would like to suggest a different approach. Change default map to dr_bank, another well made, very popular map (still isn't amongst my favorites) thus cocainum won't be played so often. And start switching servers if a map comes up that you don't like instead of trying to force your preference on everyone else. 7 or even 10 people can't make this decision for hundreds that join the deathrun servers and would like to play cocainum.
 
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DasMalzbier| Lazy Panda

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#13
The whole thread just became pointless. Closing it down. Bene told me he would not remove the map. Would have been nice to know that earlier, but oh well.

Also @Buster , you said it twice now, so I will point it out again:

trying to force your preference on everyone else
I told you before, it was not because of my personal preference that I started that thread, this pointless discussion, it was because other people who share a similar opinion with me of that map that I even thought about creating a thread. If it would have been just me, I would have never started one.

I thought I did what was best. In the end, all I did was creating a pointless thread since the outcome was already decided beforehand with me knowing. My personal opinion in that matter never mattered, yet it was brought up time and time again.

I'm terribly sorry, next time I ever dare to suggest such a thing again, I shall ask every staff member who is slightly related to deathrun about their opinion and do a month-long server survey with screenshots.

Note that I am slightly upset. Please do not reply to this thread and further, you can still message me through private chat any time. This thread is closed for good. I do need some time to cool of right now.

Suggestion Denied.
 
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