Changes to VSH Skyhigh

[wonky_donky]

In the Singaporena Skyhigh VSH Server please remove telefragging and crit stikies. These are really not problems in other maps but in skyhigh if you did not know, when you fall down, you always get spawned in 1 place, which is mid. There is no other spawn locations and because of this players can just place 14 crit scottish resistance stikies and get 5000 damage in one click. Other then that, players can telefrag extremely easily by placing a teleporter in the middle of the control point in mid and instantly kill hales. I know what you're thinking, just don't fall down the map. Well thats impossible when pyros exist and can fly accross the map and push you down. This would 100% not even be a problem if pyro airblast glitch wasnt a thing. There is a glitch where airblasting hales that have superjumped locks them and prevents then from strafing .Instead of this , maybe implement a system where hales have multiple spawn points like red or hale spawn instead of it just being in mid. If not then please for the love of god make them 1/4 damage. Getting 5000 damage in 1 single button click is literally just absurd. I have 3200 hours in tf2 , all of it being in vsh so i have a lot of experience in this so please listen to me!!!! A lot of players are abusing this and its making a lot of games literally impossible, even those who have been playing vsh since 2015 are dying to this because its way too overpowered.

 

[StenRodd]

Hello wonky, I updated the map with these issue solved, added no build and explosive filter.
Tell if it works, ignore large ammo boxes they will automatically will turn small ammo box by the plugin

 

[Jim]

Seems lame to disable intentional mechanics because you're not very good at hale. Sure it's not necessarily fun but that's part of being good at the game. It's not egregious enough where it makes winning too hard for hale.

 

[wonky_donky]

Seems lame to disable intentional mechanics because you're not very good at hale. Sure it's not necessarily fun but that's part of being good at the game. It's not egregious enough where it makes winning too hard for hale.

There is a very clear line between balanced and just good and plain overpowered. Please explain how players with 0 skill and 0 hours in tf2 or vsh can just join into skyhigh taunt to get crits plant 14 stikies get 5k in one m2 is not overpowered. In a 20 player server , hale has approx 20k hp. 5k damage is literally a quarter of hale's hp. I have seen many of my friends who range from top 1 - 20 in the server with thousands of hours lose to these people. Please just imagine 4 demos with scottish resistance doing this. They time it right and boom 20000 damage and hale is dead immeadiatly , no matter the skill or the rank of the hale. Please nerf this I have been playing for 4 years , i am so sick of this stupid bullshit happening. If you can find any counter arguements for this please say it because I genuinely cant imagine any except for "lol noob just dont get airblasted by pyros or fall down even tho pyros can jump accorss the map and lock your strafes"

 

[wonky_donky]

Hello wonky, I updated the map with these issue solved, added no build and explosive filter.
Tell if it works, ignore large ammo boxes they will automatically will turn small ammo box by the plugin

I just tested it in SG skyhigh server 139.99.62.187:27100 . It doesnt work.

 

[StenRodd]

I just tested it in SG skyhigh server 139.99.62.187:27100 . It doesnt work.

Wait for suggestions, map will be added if it has enough support

 

[FishyBoyss]

Seems lame to disable intentional mechanics because you're not very good at hale. Sure it's not necessarily fun but that's part of being good at the game. It's not egregious enough where it makes winning too hard for hale

Just like wonky said, it is ridiculous that a single player can just instantly take away a quarter of Hale's health by simply pressing M2 or even instakill him if they were lucky enough.

It does not take any skill to hit the telefrag as there is no way to predict when hale will be teleported. It is just luck. Hale can just stall his fall by super jumping, therefore, making it impossible to know when he would get teleported unless someone watches him.

Pyros can easily push you into the void. And snipers can remove all of Hale's horizontal speed by bodyshotting him once when he's in the air which would lead to him falling into the void yet again.

It's frustrating to die in such a way especially when you've been waiting for the other 20 players to go hale before it was finally your turn.

Overall, it is too low effort/easy for the damage you can deal. Moreover, it makes less experienced players worse if they continue to use these strategies instead of learning to improve their aim and gamesense.

 

[wonky_donky]

For anyone who downvotes, please write why you downvote I would genuinely love to know!!!

 

[Jim]

It's not because the winrate of vsh is already close to 50/50, with the main factor being player skill, which is corrected for when hale's hp increases or decreases every round based on who is winning. It is not objective to say "well bad players get punished for being bad and good players can still get punished by good players outplaying them!11!!!!1." If it were strong there would be a lopsided winrate for the red team which just doesn't happen.

 

[10000 Cold Knights]

Skyhigh's not designed to be balanced. Being able to instantly escape or reset Hale's position from basically anywhere on the map is inherently a very strong feature for reds that can't really be fixed without overhauling it entirely. If you want a balanced hale map I suggest joining a 24/7 Reservoir server, Bene can probably hook you guys up if you don't have one.

 

[StenRodd]

I like doing base jumper sticky trap bait, In my opinion this map makes VSH as hale more intense and fun
As hale go target sticky demos and engis, kill them before they put traps and medics as well just in case they revive them

 

[wonky_donky]

It's not because the winrate of vsh is already close to 50/50, with the main factor being player skill, which is corrected for when hale's hp increases or decreases every round based on who is winning. It is not objective to say "well bad players get punished for being bad and good players can still get punished by good players outplaying them!11!!!!1." If it were strong there would be a lopsided winrate for the red team which just doesn't happen.

I am not complaining about the winrate of skyhigh because it does not matter, if you're talking about skill you're literally just flat out wrong.I can say as a fact that there is literally nothing you can do to stop these stick trap setups. A pyro can just jump across the whole fucking map and airblast me and lock me from strafing and then i fall to the void and die immediatly. Newer pyros are not a problem but experienced pyros can predict you really easily, and there is nothing you can do because guess what , your strongest weapon is MELEE and pyros can airblast you so literally cant hit them well unless your'e of course cbs. 0 tf2 hour sticky demos can just fucking get 10k damage on me if you even make a slight mistake and fall, if that is not overpowered then honestly you're just fucking wrong. If youre talking about how they balanced it by making hale have more hp them more players there are then for 20k hp for a 20+ player server is way too low when 4 demos can just press m2 and 1 shot you.

 

[wonky_donky]

I like doing base jumper sticky trap bait, In my opinion this map makes VSH as hale more intense and fun
As hale go target sticky demos and engis, kill them before they put traps and medics as well just in case they revive

Saying that is like saying "if your homeless just get a house lmao" its not as easy as that. If you're the last one alive and you do that stupid shit you are literally wasting everyone's time and its called delaying which is bannable . And even if you did manage to bait a stupid hale you get 5k dmg from one single click which is still fucking absurd. The effort you need to put to get 5k for sniper requires 12 good shots at max, for 5k dmg for spy you need to risk your life and try backstabbing about 5 times, but for fucking stick demo, you can get 5k in one click without risking anything or having skill. How in the fuck is that not unbalanced????

 

[wonky_donky]

Skyhigh's not designed to be balanced. Being able to instantly escape or reset Hale's position from basically anywhere on the map is inherently a very strong feature for reds that can't really be fixed without overhauling it entirely. If you want a balanced hale map I suggest joining a 24/7 Reservoir server, Bene can probably hook you guys up if you don't have one.

This entire thread is not complaining about skyhigh's map balance. It is about crit stikies and how its op because idiots can get 5k dmg in one m2. Even tho snipers and other classes are way too good in skyhigh it does'nt matter as much as this. Literally a few years ago i remember playing in the same fucking server where you guys implemented a system where hale could spawn in hale spawn when he falls down. Why would u guys think it was overpowered back then but not know? You guys only removed it because it was glitchy af and people kept getting stuck in walls , so why not just fix the fucking issue with that??????

 

[FishyBoyss]

It's not because the winrate of vsh is already close to 50/50, with the main factor being player skill, which is corrected for when hale's hp increases or decreases every round based on who is winning. It is not objective to say "well bad players get punished for being bad and good players can still get punished by good players outplaying them!11!!!!1." If it were strong there would be a lopsided winrate for the red team which just doesn't happen.

Are you saying that it's illogical to say that bad players should just be punished for being bad and good players still being punished for getting outplayed? I don't think I fully understand what your main point is.

The reason why there isn't a one-sided win rate is probably because most players usually don't use these strategies, but it still doesn't deny the fact that it's overpowered/ unfun to play against.

In my experience with vsh, sometimes it just seems impossible for hale to win. Hale would keep getting shutdown by snipers and Pyros. Spies, engies, heavies, demos, and trolldiers could get free damage on him by waiting in mid. Bonk scouts or medics will try to get stuck in hale when he falls meaning he will take insane amounts of damage.

Medics can just hide in mid with all his teammates and Pyros can just airblast hale or the team can just body block when he uses rage on the medic.

Basically, if the team tried to work together, it should be impossible for hale to win. It's even worse with the 14 crit stickies and telefragging engies.

I am not saying those two things should be removed or the map changed. Instead, why not nerf the damage they deal? Instead of being instakilled by a telefrag it only took away a percentage of your health. And the stickies could have a damage cap like 3000 or less.

 

[wonky_donky]

Are you saying that it's illogical to say that bad players should just be punished for being bad and good players still being punished for getting outplayed? I don't think I fully understand what your main point is.

The reason why there isn't a one-sided win rate is probably because most players usually don't use these strategies, but it still doesn't deny the fact that it's overpowered/ unfun to play against.

In my experience with vsh, sometimes it just seems impossible for hale to win. Hale would keep getting shutdown by snipers and Pyros. Spies, engies, heavies, demos, and trolldiers could get free damage on him by waiting in mid. Bonk scouts or medics will try to get stuck in hale when he falls meaning he will take insane amounts of damage.

Medics can just hide in mid with all his teammates and Pyros can just airblast hale or the team can just body block when he uses rage on the medic.

Basically, if the team tried to work together, it should be impossible for hale to win. It's even worse with the 14 crit stickies and telefragging engies.

I am not saying those two things should be removed or the map changed. Instead, why not nerf the damage they deal? Instead of being instakilled by a telefrag it only took away a percentage of your health. And the stickies could have a damage cap like 3000 or less.

Just so you know this guy have 4k hours in vsh

 

[FishyBoyss]

Is this discussion over?