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Declined Bots for Uber Upgrades

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Warrak

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Warrak

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Possible restrictions?:
- There should probably be 1 bot on both teams at all times when the player count is over 4-6 players and the bots leave when there are 24 players (witch rarely happens..)
- When the player-count gets below 4 or 6, two bots are now on both teams at all times until there are more players than "said" number.
- If possible, make it so the bots are able to walk out of spawn.

I think implementing bots into this game-mode would only present decent upsides rather compared to any other downside, and I shall jot down the reasons below why I think this is below:

  • I believe it would help with the money flow issues when people are just either afk or sitting in spawn scared of coming out when someone has the upper advantage and knowledge of how the game / gamemode works in general.
    • ^the problem presented above slows down progression of game and reduces incentive to stay on the server making for even less player activity.

  • The cash average Idle flow is very minuscule and hardly has any real impact on gameplay, I imaging making people working for / earning the money via killing bots and having the bots increase in base HP and Dmg when the level thresholds are met (100-400..ect) and would present a entertaining challenge to people (that is if this even possible to be made a reality)

  • I imagine this would greatly reduce spawncamping, making for less reports. When I asked a couple prominent spawncampers that I've reported quite a few times as to why they do it, they told me that it's because it was either the progression of the game was halted and money wasn't being made because players either left or weren't wanting to come out of spawn or there were just people AFK sitting around waiting to be the next cash drop. Bots would reduce this temptation if they were either only made to come out of spawn, or to even be made apart of the gameplay style of Uber Upgrades.
I've also gathered some input from active players on the server at the time as to why THEY think it would be a viable addition to the gamemode and server:

Rich | [Lvl121]Kizaru : just leave em in chat and I'll copy and paste them

[Donor] [Lvl169]theehdemo : bc last night the bots made the server active
[Donor] [Lvl144]Guido Mista [Epic Gamer : Dude literally
[Donor] [Lvl144]Guido Mista [Epic Gamer : it's a basic solution to a practical problem that is the money flow and spawncamping
[Lvl144]TF2Proskillz (The Medic : the players sometimes will never fight anybody...
Friendly | [Lvl169]Bomber : Cause it's tedious to get money from players? And sometimes there isn't enough players to get money quickly from.
[Donor] [Lvl169]theehdemo : like bomber said
Friendly | [Lvl169]Bomber : And bots don't have feelings for being spam killed for money farming, players do.
[Donor] [Lvl169]theehdemo : but you can't spawn camp them though
[Donor] [Lvl169]theehdemo : they are like players, it's sorta like a principle thing.
[Donor] [Lvl169]theehdemo : spawn camp players/bots gets banned, ect.
Friendly | [Lvl169]Bomber : True, but my point still stands. They won't get upset.
[Donor] [Lvl169]theehdemo : How about we make the bots nav the map so they aswell don't sit in spawn, OR EVEN... have them spawn in the middle of the map. idk.
Rich | [Lvl121]Kizaru : ok, noted
Rich | [Lvl121]Kizaru : thx
 
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10000 Cold Knights

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So you want add bots so spawncampers can rulebreak on players that won't report them? Yeah I really don't see this ending well, just don't spawn camp.

As for the money issue, I don't feel like Id wanna join a server that only has one real player, who's an unkillable god cuz hes been farming bots for an hour :/
 

Warrak

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Warrak

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who's an unkillable god cuz hes been farming bots for an hour :/
Do you understand how Uber Upgrades works....?

Both teams have almost the same leveraged amount of money.

So you want add bots so spawncampers can rulebreak on players that won't report them?
I don't think you've bothered to read my entire post. I'm not gonna bother wasting time responding to this in a decent manner.
 

10000 Cold Knights

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I withdraw my concern about bot farming. You're right, Uber Upgrades is one of the more exotic gamemodes available here, prob should've looked into it a bit before posting, sry about that.
The spawn camping issue still doesnt sit right with me though, even if its for a good cause. But thats again, up to someone who is more familiar with the mode :/
 

Chris TCC

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About bots, yeah, you cannot use them to farm points, and according to Bene, it's not that viable.
I asked him if he could add an afk bot if there is only 1 player on JB, just so you can take a look around the map.
He told me that it would make the server unstable, so that is why he does not do that.
 

Warrak

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Warrak

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About bots, yeah, you cannot use them to farm points, and according to Bene, it's not that viable.
I asked him if he could add an afk bot if there is only 1 player on JB, just so you can take a look around the map.
He told me that it would make the server unstable, so that is why he does not do that.
Ah that is a valid point, using bot to farm points is definitely a concern...I just think points on UU are easily abusable in most circumstances anyways via when you get the airshot point bonus by having both you and a buddy go to the corner of the map and hold detonator projectiles, or how you get points from airblasted projectiles so then you can upgrade the firerate of said projectile and sit there with another person airblasting and rack up points. All of witch I've either heard people do or saw. I personally think if points are the big issue, maybe removing the point system on uber upgrades is an idea as sadly I've seen plenty of players reach top 10 with the tricks I listed above. ( was gonna make a complaint about that at some point soon aswell )
I just think the concern or need of having a bot on UU is more reasonable than looking around the map, idk I don't play JB that much.
I was also thinking about having the bots scale difficulty in being killed aswell so if points are that much of a biggie, make them challenging to kill?
(Ik asking alot for this suggestion)


None the less, that IS a valid concern.

He told me that it would make the server unstable, so that is why he does not do that.

Yikes, I hope that isn't the same case for the UU servers awell.
 
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Shadow Mario | blw.tf

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Not a good idea, that would create a HUGE gap between the money of both teams, you know, killing gives more points than dying.
Imagine, a RED farm money killing bots, he now have around 25k money, when a BLU join, his money will probably be around 15k, doesn't sound very fair, right?
 

Warrak

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Warrak

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If a cash gap is such a huge issue(or if it even exits) because supposedly "you get more money from a kill than a death of a teammate", then make it so there isn't any? Make some changes to the config or something. I personally haven't taken the time to download a proxy config so see if there is such a setting but if there is, might this also be a valid suggestion? I think that fair playgrounds for both teams is important, I also understand that it might be money earned from the team that supposedly worked the hardest for the money, but at what point do we value equity over the quality of play for other?

I've recently gotten some steam messages from people about this and they've noted that it was Theedemo's idea first and that bots would cause issues to the server with crashing concerns. They also said it would be hard work to make it so the bots would be scaled in difficulty.

so basically 4 concerns?

- Cash Gap
- Point farming??
- Server Issues such as the server crashing and players not being able to handle bots
- to much work to implament and configure


Potential Positives

- Better cash flow for when players hide in spawn scared of people with better upgrades leading to possibly better game progression.
- Less potential spawncamp if the bots were able to nav and move around the map, or somehow have a spawn placed at either 2nd cap points on the map?
- Potentially more activity if ^ these 2 are in a realistic state


This could be a long project over time but I mean nothing worth having comes easy. It all depends on your point of view if you are willing to trade in the point system and some effort to make it happen. I also understand people either don't understand or like change most of the time. In the end though it's quality over quantity: Your choice.
 
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