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Declined Add a new definition to JB

Cowboy

Spectacularly Lethal
Joined
May 29, 2020
Messages
201
Hey y'all, I've had this cooking up in my brain for a long time now and i'd like to formulate a short argument over a definition that i think should be added to the official rules of jailbreak.

A pain point as far as wardens go would be the fact that we have to manually list off all 3 class restrictions when giving out orders and its quite a mouthful, it would be nice to simply be able to state "all class restrictions apply" rather than listing off the restrictions and most likely repeat once again if asked for a repeat.

the definition would be adressed as such:

Class restrictions apply/are in effect.
All prisoners may not heal, have spy melee weapons out or throw projectiles as a scout unless specifically given permission by the warden. any other class restrictions besides the ones previously mentioned should be defined clearly by the warden.




Why should this rule should be implemented? Here are some pro's to this rule being added:

This would be less of a pain for wardens to continually list off the class restrictions and forgo going through all of the restrictions without being talked over, adding this definition would decrease the delay to the start of the round and allow wardens to progress the round more quickly.

Reds would have a complete and concrete rule definition to abide by.

This definition wouldn't just be a "Random" edition to the ruleset as a majority of long time jailbreak players have already heard the term and know what it means.


Side note: Obviously there are more restrictions than these 3, such as medics having melee/medigun out/engi no teleporting ect. But the 3 restrictions that i have listed is more universally used and spoken.

I appreciate your constructive criticism and i look forward to hearing what your thoughts are.
 

Chris TCC

Blackwonder's Own
Staff Member
Admin
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
3,833
I wonder if people would appriciate more complexity being added to the rules. I understand that this is for the convenience in-game, but the rules are already very complex as-is, and adding more definitions/rules etc might make it worse. just my two cents about this.
 

Cowboy

Spectacularly Lethal
Joined
May 29, 2020
Messages
201
I wonder if people would appreciate more complexity being added to the rules. I understand that this is for the convenience in-game, but the rules are already very complex as-is, and adding more definitions/rules etc might make it worse. just my two cents about this.
Hi Gibus, thanks for your reply.

I'm not sure if an added complexity would be the right word or phrase in this situation. I think you would be right in most cases like this when it comes to the inconvenience of more rules being added to an already huge list of rules that we already have.

However, I'd re-iterate that all class restrictions apply is already a common term on the server and would need little adjustment of the players to follow the new definition and would promote a better quality of life for the warden and the players.

Personally, I feel like adding a specific definition to class restrictions would be more of a bummer than a convenience.

Yes, simply saying "All class restrictions apply" as warden is much easier than individually naming each restriction, but it doesn't add very much of an extra delay. Warden can simply list off each restriction while going to a destination instead of idling in main cell area.

Many of the Jailbreak players are also used to a rule specifically saying that warden can't just say "class restrictions apply". I feel like it would be more of a hassle to implement this definition because of that. We ourselves would have to learn each specific restriction, inevitably remembering them til' the day of our deaths (being the religious jailbreak players we are). We, as people who have sold our souls to Jailbreak, would also have to explain these restrictions to players in need of the knowledge of the Blackwonder Jailbreak Rulebook(tm), of which we worship oh so dearly.

A smaller point; As a warden, your first messages to the Reds would be something along the lines of "Go to the yellow line and AFK freeze..." Adding in a quick "All class restrictions apply" rolls off the tongue real quick and easy. Because of this new definition, it nerfs(?) the effectiveness of our dearly beloved Reds seeking to rebel.


So yes, the definition *does* save a little bit of time, but I think not enough worth causing some unnecessary confusion to change a rule we are used to.

Hey Sota, you make a great argument and some excellent points but i'd like to rival your main argument with an example and addressing an issue in jailbreak as a whole.

In which of the two examples are you MOST LIKELY to be talked over (which may result in your mis-hearing an order or not hearing the order resulting in your death)

"Class Restrictions apply"

"All Class restrictions apply, medics no healing, spy's sappers out and scouts no projectiles"

That second part may not sound like a lot, but repeating it twice is rough and more often or not you are more likely to be talked over during the class restriction explanation rather use 3 simple words that i believe reds will pick up quite easily as it has already been a commonly used term.

It wouldn't really be a hassle to learn this definition due to the fact that if you have played jailbreak for more than 3 hours, you most likely have encountered the 3 class restrictions ordered by a warden, I see it as common knowledge at this point which is why i'm pushing forward the idea of implementing it into the rules.

Thank you for your replies, I enjoyed your insight very much.
 
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Cammy

Legendary

Cammy

Offline
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Messages
693
I feel it better to not add this since it gives prisoners a chance to capitalise on the Warden's failure to restrict said classes.
A new player may not know what is restricted when 'all class restrictions' are applied.

There is no reason to add this as a rule from my view. It's two-five seconds of orders that stop classes from doing what they're doing. I guarantee people are going to ignore the new rule constantly and die as a result. The rule would be in effect from the start of the round, lots of dead people are going to be killed the moment cell doors open. There will be no reason to play medic (except for the stupid-high crit rate) as healing is completely illegal. It doesn't matter if Spies have their sappers out or not. If he has a chance to kill you, the Sapper being out ain't gonna stop him.

In regards to being talked over; You are allowed to kill people that overtalk during your repeat, as long as you say they will be KoS if they overtalk during it.

Repeat your orders a second time (top)
You must give a repeat if asked for or if you were being talked over. You only have to give out one repeat if asked but nobody can talk over you. You mention to the players that you will be giving a repeat and anyone talking over your orders will be KOS. Your final repeat is when nobody has talked over your orders.


Edit: About the scout: The scout is KoS no matter what if he hits someone with a ball or throws it during an AFK freeze order. I never understood this restriction. Unless he rolls it across the floor or aims away from the Guards, he's going to be killed regardless.
 

Blizz

Notably Dangerous

Avi

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Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
110
I wonder if people would appriciate more complexity being added to the rules. I understand that this is for the convenience in-game, but the rules are already very complex as-is, and adding more definitions/rules etc might make it worse. just my two cents about this.

This pretty much sums up my stance on the rules. Newer users already have a tough time navigating to the rules page with the current UI that the rules provide. I think it's long enough and It's not hard to recite something that takes about 5 seconds. If someone is overtalking you, repeat it and kill those who overtalk you as you are permitted to do so thanks to:

In regards to being talked over; You are allowed to kill people that overtalk during your repeat, as long as you say they will be KoS if they overtalk during it.

Repeat your orders a second time (top)
You must give a repeat if asked for or if you were being talked over. You only have to give out one repeat if asked but nobody can talk over you. You mention to the players that you will be giving a repeat and anyone talking over your orders will be KOS. Your final repeat is when nobody has talked over your orders.

One last note about this. The idea that you have to say "talking over makes you KoS" is useless if someone is already talking over you.
 

Puggy

Sufficiently Lethal

Pugless

Offline
Joined
Jan 22, 2017
Messages
128
Hey y'all, I've had this cooking up in my brain for a long time now and i'd like to formulate a short argument over a definition that i think should be added to the official rules of jailbreak.

A pain point as far as wardens go would be the fact that we have to manually list off all 3 class restrictions when giving out orders and its quite a mouthful, it would be nice to simply be able to state "all class restrictions apply" rather than listing off the restrictions and most likely repeat once again if asked for a repeat.

the definition would be adressed as such:

Class restrictions apply/are in effect.
All prisoners may not heal, have spy melee weapons out or throw projectiles as a scout unless specifically given permission by the warden. any other class restrictions besides the ones previously mentioned should be defined clearly by the warden.




Why should this rule should be implemented? Here are some pro's to this rule being added:

This would be less of a pain for wardens to continually list off the class restrictions and forgo going through all of the restrictions without being talked over, adding this definition would decrease the delay to the start of the round and allow wardens to progress the round more quickly.

Reds would have a complete and concrete rule definition to abide by.

This definition wouldn't just be a "Random" edition to the ruleset as a majority of long time jailbreak players have already heard the term and know what it means.


Side note: Obviously there are more restrictions than these 3, such as medics having melee/medigun out/engi no teleporting ect. But the 3 restrictions that i have listed is more universally used and spoken.

I appreciate your constructive criticism and i look forward to hearing what your thoughts are.
Hey im on jb too and wardens should list them the only reason i say this, is so everyone knows if this warden know whats 2 plus 2 or if they fail English to also someone wardens dont let med heal but let spy have his knife out. not everyone on blue will do this, since some of them know that with a sapper u cant see, so i think they should have to tell them
 

Jim

Cutiepie.tf
Staff Member
Admin
Joined
Dec 3, 2016
Messages
2,836
No because it's a lazy order that every warden would say every round because there is no reason not to.

It stales the game.
 

Cowboy

Spectacularly Lethal
Joined
May 29, 2020
Messages
201
Hey guys, I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to respond and add a vote to my suggestion.

I can definitely see the trend on where this suggestion is going and i'm completely okay with it and harbor no ill feelings toward you all, I saw an opportunity to start a conversation and make a change which i went for.

I am grateful for the opportunity in order to express my opinion without being ridiculed or attacked which is something i'm extremely grateful and appreciative of the community. I realize that my view on the game on this particular subject doesn't match exactly with others and i completely understand that. I love jailbreak and i respect the rules, i'm glad i got to view everyone insight and learned a lot from your responses.

I'll go ahead and keep the poll up for the remainder of the time allotted and look forward to hearing any other constructive feedback you send my way.
 

cappie

Strange

cappie

Offline
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
11
I mean I might call myself out a bit here, but since I play medic on red the most, this is one of the most annoying things a warden can say to me. Healing is the whole point of my class, and I bet you spies feel the same way about not being able to backstab (easily). Asking the warden to tell us what the class restrictions are, and/or asking for a repeat, gives us more freedom time as our class. More time to build uber/heal hurt reds, or for spies, more time to plan out a backstab.

Not to mention red and blue banter is a big part of playing jb. If you play warden you have to be able to deal with the piles of repeats and the defines. If this bothers you too much take some more time on red, banter with the guards, try to rebel. It's not a real prison, have fun.

And none what I said even mentions new jb players. People that just joined get enough "read the rules" shoved in their face, and now you're expecting them to know what all class restrictions are.

(TL;DR) It's complex and just makes jb stricter. Easier for blues doesn't mean its better for everyone.
 

normie

Totally Ordinary
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
414
I want to abuse my class's potential to the fullest extent and catch the warden on his faults. Instead, making class restrictions a definition ruins the fun of being able to do much as spy.
 
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