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Declined Admin Application from Moku

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ProvidedTimmy

Tism
Staff Member
Admin
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
198
OK, after reading what could be a 1,000 page world history textbook on everybody's comments, here are me pros and cons:
PROS:
  • Good English
  • Previous Administrative Experience
  • Knows Plenty of Admins
  • Is Active on Forums, Discord, and Servers
CONS:
  • Kind of strict with the rule breakers punishments
  • Needs improvement on taking criticism IMO
Since I'm special I don't know what to put here so I am writing this which means nothing. Anyways seeing that the Pros out do the Cons, he has me +SUPPORT
 

FishCrimes

The King of Fish
Staff Member
Manager
Admin
Joined
Dec 3, 2016
Messages
885
OK, after reading what could be a 1,000 page world history textbook on everybody's comments, here are me pros and cons:
PROS:
  • Good English
  • Previous Administrative Experience
  • Knows Plenty of Admins
  • Is Active on Forums, Discord, and Servers
CONS:
  • Kind of strict with the rule breakers punishments
  • Needs improvement on taking criticism IMO
Since I'm special I don't know what to put here so I am writing this which means nothing. Anyways seeing that the Pros out do the Cons, he has me +SUPPORT
"Good English" is a huge stretch, the app is still riddled with errors, it's just much improved from his last one.
 

Kowii

Inactive, But always lurking.

Kow

Offline
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Messages
338
I think he deserves a chance
Yes, his previous application was an disaster, but he might have learned.
I'm not always this kind, but I'll go with a +support

I did manage to talk to him and he seems like a friendly guy, I saw no problems with him.
And I'd be happy if someone could take my spot I left behind xD


I don't even know if I have any say in this anymore, but I'll still do it ^_^


 
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
6
Awesome guy. My personal opinion is I think Moku would make a good admin. He has a little bit of strict rules, and his spelling is off. I believe he would eventually improve his rules to not be that strict.
 

tomato.kitty.tf

The King of Kats
Joined
Apr 20, 2016
Messages
668
Even though I'm listed as a known admin I don't have an opinion as I have never played with Moku (and even if i did i don't remember it as i have severe memory issues) and only spoke with him three times for 5~ minutes so I don't really have much to contribute

n e u t r a l
 

Moku

Sufficiently Lethal
Joined
Nov 20, 2016
Messages
130
Even though I'm listed as a known admin I don't have an opinion as I have never played with Moku (and even if i did i don't remember it as i have severe memory issues) and only spoke with him three times for 5~ minutes so I don't really have much to contribute

n e u t r a l

Thanks, yes we have played before but if you don't remember its okay, and we talked for like 3 hours one time lol, and on other occasions.
 

tomato.kitty.tf

The King of Kats
Joined
Apr 20, 2016
Messages
668
Thanks, yes we have played before but if you don't remember its okay, and we talked for like 3 hours one time lol, and on other occasions.

@RainbowRob is the only one that has the chance to speak with me for hours.
I'd like to read something about that three-hour conversation we supposedly had, even if it's not related to this application directly I can't help but think you might be confusing me with somebody else.
 

Moku

Sufficiently Lethal
Joined
Nov 20, 2016
Messages
130
@RainbowRob is the only one that has the chance to speak with me for hours.
I'd like to read something about that three-hour conversation we supposedly had, even if it's not related to this application directly I can't help but think you might be confusing me with somebody else.

Hahahaha it was not you that we had the 3-hour conversation with, must have been someone else, Sorry about that :/
 

will5023

Can fly, can fight, can crow.
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
1,726
While other admins have had issues with you, i haven't so much myself. You seem to have taken much of the advice from your previous application to heart. we've spoken a couple of times but due to time zones i'm generally heading to sleep when you come on. You do appear to have had some issues with telling incorrect rules (i'll presume you were just misinformed) before but even i am guilty of that before i became admin. I'll put myself as NEUTRAL for now but leaning slightly further to +support than negative. My advice is to not be like me and try argue so brutally over the criticisms people give you, i can see you've worked harder on your app this time and thought about whether it might be worth it this time and it shouldn't have descended into arguing like it has and this isn't you at fault for it descending into it. though i'd put the app out of mind for now and come back maybe once a week and do a comment addressing any new concerns :)
 
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Dee

Sufficiently Lethal

Dee

Offline
Joined
Dec 21, 2016
Messages
135
After consulting with a few staff, I have decided to reinforce my -Support with a chatlog I found but wasn't sure if I was right or not. On the 2nd of February (AKA post-previous admin application) you said "Guys spawncaming is 'Inside Spawn' 'Killing inside spawn' me outside killing you while you come out is not spawncaming..". The staff I talked to agreed that this is incorrect, and that spawncamping is in fact any method of preventing players from leaving spawn, such as shooting into spawn and not letting them leave, something which should be obvious as either way they are stuck and cannot move from their spawn. The fact that you openly enforced incorrect rules without first checking is a large con for me, and has moved me further into -Support. Still, good luck with your application!

I can understand where you are coming from, Grizzly, I really do. You've probably asked some admins who regularly play on orange what constitutes as spawncamping, whereas they told you that 1. Entering enemy spawn and killing enemy players and 2. Killing enemies outside enemy spawn preventing them from leaving spawn would be spawncamping, and that would be my definition too. The problem however is that Moku didn't break any rules:

YTHRNf7.jpg


On the forums spawncamping isn't explained at all:
4b39e1aa08578a42da2c1b5e1b1288e5.png


This is the definition of spawncamping (at least according to the server rules). I can fully agree that this rule is outdated (you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out), but the fact to the matter is that even though you might think Moku did something wrong he never broke any rules (again unless we start making imaginary rules but how would players ever be able to know when they'd be breaking any rules or not?).

If you would like to make a suggestion to change the rules related to spawncamping please ask Benedevil or make a thread in the suggestion subforums. That's at least what I do, but don't make assumptions and hypocritically enforce incorrect rules please.

EDIT:

Turns out that "Do not enter the enemy spawn" is kind of a side rule of "No Spawn Camping" (which in my eyes doesn't make a lot of sense). Obviously I was confused in thinking it actually was the definition of spawncamping, though how did I have to know?
 
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Grizzly

Hunky Chunk of Love
Joined
Sep 5, 2016
Messages
385
I don't see the problem here. Spawn camping is widely known as preventing the enemy from leaving spawn. The screenshot in game that you have provided shows me that you are told not to spawn camp, and not to enter the enemy spawn. These are two different things. When you go on a Valve server and plant stickies at the door of the enemy, blowing them up whenever they try to leave, that's spawn camping. You don't have to be a genius to figure that out, it's practically common sense to anyone who plays multiplayer games. The only reason entering the enemy spawn is specifically mentioned is because that's not normally possible, and so it needed to be specifically addressed for the Orange map. When the rules say

fd55c093f0984c828d1e4084772d4509.png


then we're being told two different rules to play by. We're not being told that the definition if spawn camping is to not enter the enemy spawn. We're being told that one rule is to not spawn camp (eg. Don't prevent enemies from leaving spawn) and one is to not enter the enemy spawn. I can see how the formatting makes this menu able to be interpreted in different ways.

Now yes, it isn't explained on the forums, and even though most people will know what it means, some people may get confused in terms of both forum definition and server menu, like we have here. But that's when you ask. I cannot urge people enough that when a grey area comes up, just ask. A staff member, a donator, a regular, it doesn't matter; ask.

And Dee, as much as I appreciate you arguing back and making a stand against my comment, being ironically cocky at the end and assuming I'm hypocritically enforcing incorrect rules without considering different possibilities is harming to your credibility to me. You could have made that entire argument without jumping to conclusions at the end.
 

Dee

Sufficiently Lethal

Dee

Offline
Joined
Dec 21, 2016
Messages
135
I don't see the problem here. Spawn camping is widely known as preventing the enemy from leaving spawn. The screenshot in game that you have provided shows me that you are told not to spawn camp, and not to enter the enemy spawn. These are two different things. When you go on a Valve server and plant stickies at the door of the enemy, blowing them up whenever they try to leave, that's spawn camping. You don't have to be a genius to figure that out, it's practically common sense to anyone who plays multiplayer games. The only reason entering the enemy spawn is specifically mentioned is because that's not normally possible, and so it needed to be specifically addressed for the Orange map. When the rules say

fd55c093f0984c828d1e4084772d4509.png

Nvm, it was a misunderstanding.

now everyone plz delete ur dumbs
 
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Grizzly

Hunky Chunk of Love
Joined
Sep 5, 2016
Messages
385
I literally just countered this same point. There are two things there. One is no spawn camping, and one is to not enter the enemy spawn.
We're not being told that the definition if spawn camping is to not enter the enemy spawn. We're being told that one rule is to not spawn camp (eg. Don't prevent enemies from leaving spawn) and one is to not enter the enemy spawn.
Either come up with a new reason or stop making the same backfiring point. And like, I said, being cocky doesn't help. This argument could be made without being a dick to the other person, but you're including it anyway.
 

tomato.kitty.tf

The King of Kats
Joined
Apr 20, 2016
Messages
668
Grizzly didn't make any mistakes, i think you just forgot to read this 'little' part here:

then we're being told two different rules to play by. We're not being told that the definition if spawn camping is to not enter the enemy spawn. We're being told that one rule is to not spawn camp (eg. Don't prevent enemies from leaving spawn) and one is to not enter the enemy spawn. I can see how the formatting makes this menu able to be interpreted in different ways.
 

Raccoon

Somewhat Threatening

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Joined
Dec 26, 2016
Messages
77
Let's relate this application to a job application. The chat log is improving, as I can see what people are mentioning above. Now let's pretend that the "chat log" is an area where you respect others, and then you start swearing (mine isn't much better. It's cancer, but I understand the need to have a bit of fun, or really get annoyed by someone. I've had those moments). The stuff you say in the chat log can be relatable to the stuff you say on your friends in social media, which your boss will most likely check. If he sees you swearing, and getting mad, he will not think of it in your perspective and will think that you are a rude person, and will therefore be unfit for the job, yet if he sees that that's happened a while ago, and you've improved much better now, he will be more likely to accept you than before.
A few more things to mention. Accepting constructive criticism. I understand how it's hard to accept it, and I find it hard to accept it too, because I sometimes think that I'm perfect (I mean, I know I'm perfect; haha), but people will point out your mistakes. When you write an application, it's hard to mention things you've done that wasn't right. What's happened has happened, right? Well, not exactly. As @Fish-Related Crimes mentioned up above, if you're a convict, people most likely will not trust them, yet the convicts try to get rid of those negative things in their life. Take Frank William Abagnale, for example. He went to prison for 5 years for being a conman, but now he runs a consulting firm that helps agencies debunk fraud.
Now I know that that's an extreme example to relate to this, but accept some of what the admins are trying to point out, and accept it. That's all I have to say.
 

FishCrimes

The King of Fish
Staff Member
Manager
Admin
Joined
Dec 3, 2016
Messages
885
Digging this app up again.

Right off the bat, I'm going to be honest and say that I'm reinforcing my -support as something that was most likely overlooked and some may argue minor, however I value it. Here, @Lucas points out that your opinion changed with the community's. This to me communicates that you're either not willing to do the digging and wait for others, or think with a group mentality, neither of which are good. To me, this communicates either carelessness in the event that you couldn't be bothered to do the digging, or have trouble forming your own thoughts and opinions. While of course, you could argue this was one instance, Lucas implied it had happened multiple times. This in fact reminds me of a situation I was faced with, when about 2-3 people were interrupting a legitimate trader on the mic and justified it with "nobody cares," and continued about their jovial day. It was pretty obvious that the trader interrupted genuinely wanted to advertise and wanted to make (a) trade(s). Instead of thinking with a group mentality, I cracked down on all of them, and then the trader proceeded to advertise. Though somewhat personal, I believe this anecdote can go a long way in teaching you, but for now, my decision has been made.
 
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