ARC_Winters
Scarcely Lethal
ARC_Winters
Offline
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2021
- Messages
- 39
Some of my ideas for balancing for Versus Saxton Hale
Many of my ideas may already have been considered/ already in the game, I may not realise that considering that the stats don't stay up nor can I view them easily. Sorry for that.
I also know that my ideas may not be added, but I would at least like to give my ideas.
And if anyone else has some more ideas for changes, we can add them here in hopes we can get some changes to help both veteran's and new players.
Edit: Because of the feedback and criticism that I have gotten from people in-game and on discord, I have decided to update the post to hopefully get something changed to make Versus Saxton Hale more enjoyable for everyone.
I've also decided to add my reasonings to all the changes to give better insight as to why I have asked for a specific change.
Please fix Sky-High Resort point camping..
I'm even willing to make a separate post about this.
This isn't related, but I've lost about an hour writing this due to my computer bugging out on me. Thanks computer, would love to save drafts...
Green - Buffs
Red - Nerfs
General:
+ Give players that just join the Versus Saxton Hale server less priority when joining for the day.
• This is just to give people who just join a chance at getting in the server for a player round before becoming Hale the first thing they join a server. Just gives everyone a breather.
- Goomba damage % per player decreased.
• As I've seen it, it can range from 2,000 damage to 500 damage per goomba. All I am asking for is the max damage to at least be lowered so the Hale isn't overwhelmed.
- Any taunt kills should deal more damage.
• All taunt kills are extremely hard to pull off but only do exactly 450 damage and I believe a feat should do lots more damage. This would also give more ways to kill Hale in silly and goofy ways.
Hale:
+ A little bit of decreased knockback would be nice.
• I've seen and have had may difficult times trying to assault an enginerr nest and a heavy group with amp and dispenser nearby to help them, it makes extremely difficult as you are thrown away and will have an extremely harder time to try and kill those players as Hale. Vagineer rage uber is the only way to get there as by the time you get halfway, you are thrown away and your rage cannot hit those players or sentries, especially if there is more than one sentry.
+ A little extra health % per player for newer players.
• As we've discussed, there is a way to implement a system to give newer players that have no idea what they are doing a better chance of being able to handle players with more health. I feel like this would be a good decision. Can you also maybe change the tool tip to instead of crouch and look up to super jump, make it right-click and look up.
+ Christian Brutal Sniper rage range stun is increased a little bit.
• Even though this can conflict with the next suggestion/idea, I feel like this can be a given as Christian Brutal Sniper has a harder time when dealing in close range with his stun as it doesn't give him enough breathing room to make players back up and run. The first layer would soon get replaced with the second layer and he's back to being swarmed once the rage stun duration is over.
~ Make Hale Rage, Stun Range, and Stun Duration based on the amount of players rather than a set amount.
• I feel like making this change to Hale and his variants would be a good change as it balances it out for all players instead of making a buff to one Hale instead of just one or the other.
- Reduce the explosion radius for Robot Saxton Hale.
• Even though Robot Saxton Hale is immobilized, there are ways to get around this which would catch many players, even myself, off guard. If he is indeed immobilized now, it would be unnecessary to keep his explosion radius where it is currently at.
Scout:
+ Baby Face's Blaster boost stays for longer.
•The boost duration per hit disappears almost instantly as you get it, which would make sense as you are attempting to run away from a Hale while doing damage, this makes sense. But the instant depletion of that boost is not consistent and I would like it to be increased to give those players a chance at staying alive.
- Soda Popper duration is decreased.
• With how long it lasts, it lasts for far too long with what you can do with the HYPE meter duration. You can either deal goomba damage with how high you can jump or jump away many times with how long that HYPE meter last. I am asking for a decrease in that duration for those reasons alone.
Soldier:
+ Half-Zatoichi gives more health per swing.
• If a Hale is hitting as much as a soldier is with this melee and a Battalion's Back up, the Hale will always win. I figure that the Half-Zatoichi for soldier shouldn't give any overheal but should give more health per swing hit to give back more than what is dealt or at least even the damage received to make this combo viable more for soldier other than Trolldier.
- Fix the "Guntreads" bug.
• Equip Mantreads and before you get revived after dying or after that round ends, equip the Gunboats and you'll receive the boost from Mantreads and get the damage reduction from Gunboats. I'm asking for it to be fixed to make it fair.
Pyro:
+ Phlogistinator MMMPH duration is longer.
• The duration is short enough that a Hale can basically outrun you and you've wasted the duration fully. This should at least allow a pyro to catch up to deal some damage as a Hale runs away half the time or tries to kill you the other half the time.
- Phlogistinator MMMPH damage is lowered.
• Because the duration is longer, the damage should receive a slight nerf to offset that buff to not make it extremely overpowered. This would only apply when MMMPH is activated.
- Decrease the amount of rage given to Hale from airblast from 8% (I think this is how much.) to 3%.
• I understand this would basically remove the punishment that trolls can do, but that's what the next idea goes into depth about. It can stay or go, but it less punishes the team instead of the trolling pyro.
- Give a cooldown to airblast after it has been used too much and/or make it so that after airblast, the cost goes up by 5+ to a max of 100 ammo used per airblast.
• As we've both talked and got out own ideas and criticism out, I believe that either is a better suggestion to make than what I had initially suggested. The cooldown is a better idea for the trolling pyros to punish them for airblasting too much to make sure the Hale can punish them for airblasting instead of just letting the pyro airblast for easy rage. The ammo idea increase is a slightly better idea to punish the pyro for dispenser camping to give them a harder time at airblast spamming. Both are great ways to punish a trolling pyro.
Demoman:
+ Half-Zatoichi gives more hp per swing and can overheal to survive at least 1 hit from Hale.
• The Half-Zatoichi for Demoman gives not enough overheal to survive one hit and the Hale can instantly kill the player not matter what loadout the Demoman has set up. This would give the Demoman another viable sword rather than just Eyelander.
Heavy:
Perfectly Balanced.
Engineer:
- Telefrag doing max 9,000 damage.
• I really do understand that this is definitely a map problem for Sky-High, but I want to give one more reason for this. This is a base game thing for it to insta-kill, but to have a round end within a minute is not fun for both Hale and Players especially if it is for several rounds even with Hale players above 9,000+ health. This can also happen on maps other than Sky-High which is just boring and part of a problem that continues to grow.
Medi
- Reduce the starting uber from 45% to 10-20%.
• This is way too much considering how fast a medic can get an uber and sustain an uber. If a Hale player cannot pick off the medics, the amount of uber and ubered players will be able to swarm the Hale player, making it nearly impossible for the Hale to win.
- Reduce the given uber from after an uber usage from 20% to 5-10%
• This falls into the first nerf for the medic, it allows the medic to get a lot of ubers way too fast which prevents the Hale from either killing them, or killing other players, making it nearly impossible for the Hale to win.
- Reduce the uber charge rate.
• Again, this makes the Medic way too powerful and is a deserved nerf as it gives the medic less than a minute, making it harder for the Hale to stop the ubers which the medic can get very quickly with how fast the charge rate is at right now.
- Reduce how much uber is gained from syringes hitting Hale.
• As I have been told by players that actually use syringe guns instead of the Crusader's Crossbow, it gives 5% per hit excluding the Overdose which gives 1% per hit. The 5% is way too much and the syringe guns should match the 1% that the Overdose has. That is more fair and balanced.
- Reduce how much uber is gained from Crusader's Crossbow bolt hitting Hale.
• I personally use the Crusader's Crossbow and the 15% is way too much with how much the medic gets uber with hitting your shots. This may reward good shots, but this is ridiculous with how medic is currently and there are many complaints. Reduce this down to half or lower and this will be fine enough.
Sniper:
+ Sydney Sleeper should reduce Hale's rage with fully charged shots.
• As I have been told by many many players, this is not needed but this should've been added and the Sydney Sleeper mechanic could be used in some way like this. With the nerf to knockback based on the charge, this should be an okay change as every other sniper rifle is still usable.
- Have knockback based on the amount of charge you have from being zoomed in.
• This should be a given as any shot, scoped in or scoped out do the same amount of knockback that annoy and pester hale way too much with how the knockback is currently. With no charge, the knockback should be minimal and a fully charged shot should be significant.
- Unscoped shots have little to no knockback.
•The knockback is the same as a scoped shot, but this also allows the sniper to at least escape a Hale player so this change is a suggestion and I am not expecting it to become a thing.
Spy:
- Fix the goomba insta-kill bug.
• This falls under telefrags, it happens more and more and insta-kills the Hale at any health. As I've been told if a spy goomba's and backstabs a hale at the same time, that just gets annoying to deal with as it happens more than you can think.
Many of my ideas may already have been considered/ already in the game, I may not realise that considering that the stats don't stay up nor can I view them easily. Sorry for that.
I also know that my ideas may not be added, but I would at least like to give my ideas.
And if anyone else has some more ideas for changes, we can add them here in hopes we can get some changes to help both veteran's and new players.
Edit: Because of the feedback and criticism that I have gotten from people in-game and on discord, I have decided to update the post to hopefully get something changed to make Versus Saxton Hale more enjoyable for everyone.
I've also decided to add my reasonings to all the changes to give better insight as to why I have asked for a specific change.
I'm even willing to make a separate post about this.
This isn't related, but I've lost about an hour writing this due to my computer bugging out on me. Thanks computer, would love to save drafts...
Green - Buffs
Red - Nerfs
General:
+ Give players that just join the Versus Saxton Hale server less priority when joining for the day.
• This is just to give people who just join a chance at getting in the server for a player round before becoming Hale the first thing they join a server. Just gives everyone a breather.
- Goomba damage % per player decreased.
• As I've seen it, it can range from 2,000 damage to 500 damage per goomba. All I am asking for is the max damage to at least be lowered so the Hale isn't overwhelmed.
- Any taunt kills should deal more damage.
• All taunt kills are extremely hard to pull off but only do exactly 450 damage and I believe a feat should do lots more damage. This would also give more ways to kill Hale in silly and goofy ways.
Hale:
+ A little bit of decreased knockback would be nice.
• I've seen and have had may difficult times trying to assault an enginerr nest and a heavy group with amp and dispenser nearby to help them, it makes extremely difficult as you are thrown away and will have an extremely harder time to try and kill those players as Hale. Vagineer rage uber is the only way to get there as by the time you get halfway, you are thrown away and your rage cannot hit those players or sentries, especially if there is more than one sentry.
+ A little extra health % per player for newer players.
• As we've discussed, there is a way to implement a system to give newer players that have no idea what they are doing a better chance of being able to handle players with more health. I feel like this would be a good decision. Can you also maybe change the tool tip to instead of crouch and look up to super jump, make it right-click and look up.
+ Christian Brutal Sniper rage range stun is increased a little bit.
• Even though this can conflict with the next suggestion/idea, I feel like this can be a given as Christian Brutal Sniper has a harder time when dealing in close range with his stun as it doesn't give him enough breathing room to make players back up and run. The first layer would soon get replaced with the second layer and he's back to being swarmed once the rage stun duration is over.
~ Make Hale Rage, Stun Range, and Stun Duration based on the amount of players rather than a set amount.
• I feel like making this change to Hale and his variants would be a good change as it balances it out for all players instead of making a buff to one Hale instead of just one or the other.
- Reduce the explosion radius for Robot Saxton Hale.
• Even though Robot Saxton Hale is immobilized, there are ways to get around this which would catch many players, even myself, off guard. If he is indeed immobilized now, it would be unnecessary to keep his explosion radius where it is currently at.
Scout:
+ Baby Face's Blaster boost stays for longer.
•The boost duration per hit disappears almost instantly as you get it, which would make sense as you are attempting to run away from a Hale while doing damage, this makes sense. But the instant depletion of that boost is not consistent and I would like it to be increased to give those players a chance at staying alive.
- Soda Popper duration is decreased.
• With how long it lasts, it lasts for far too long with what you can do with the HYPE meter duration. You can either deal goomba damage with how high you can jump or jump away many times with how long that HYPE meter last. I am asking for a decrease in that duration for those reasons alone.
Soldier:
+ Half-Zatoichi gives more health per swing.
• If a Hale is hitting as much as a soldier is with this melee and a Battalion's Back up, the Hale will always win. I figure that the Half-Zatoichi for soldier shouldn't give any overheal but should give more health per swing hit to give back more than what is dealt or at least even the damage received to make this combo viable more for soldier other than Trolldier.
- Fix the "Guntreads" bug.
• Equip Mantreads and before you get revived after dying or after that round ends, equip the Gunboats and you'll receive the boost from Mantreads and get the damage reduction from Gunboats. I'm asking for it to be fixed to make it fair.
Pyro:
+ Phlogistinator MMMPH duration is longer.
• The duration is short enough that a Hale can basically outrun you and you've wasted the duration fully. This should at least allow a pyro to catch up to deal some damage as a Hale runs away half the time or tries to kill you the other half the time.
- Phlogistinator MMMPH damage is lowered.
• Because the duration is longer, the damage should receive a slight nerf to offset that buff to not make it extremely overpowered. This would only apply when MMMPH is activated.
- Decrease the amount of rage given to Hale from airblast from 8% (I think this is how much.) to 3%.
• I understand this would basically remove the punishment that trolls can do, but that's what the next idea goes into depth about. It can stay or go, but it less punishes the team instead of the trolling pyro.
- Give a cooldown to airblast after it has been used too much and/or make it so that after airblast, the cost goes up by 5+ to a max of 100 ammo used per airblast.
• As we've both talked and got out own ideas and criticism out, I believe that either is a better suggestion to make than what I had initially suggested. The cooldown is a better idea for the trolling pyros to punish them for airblasting too much to make sure the Hale can punish them for airblasting instead of just letting the pyro airblast for easy rage. The ammo idea increase is a slightly better idea to punish the pyro for dispenser camping to give them a harder time at airblast spamming. Both are great ways to punish a trolling pyro.
Demoman:
+ Half-Zatoichi gives more hp per swing and can overheal to survive at least 1 hit from Hale.
• The Half-Zatoichi for Demoman gives not enough overheal to survive one hit and the Hale can instantly kill the player not matter what loadout the Demoman has set up. This would give the Demoman another viable sword rather than just Eyelander.
Heavy:
Perfectly Balanced.
Engineer:
- Telefrag doing max 9,000 damage.
• I really do understand that this is definitely a map problem for Sky-High, but I want to give one more reason for this. This is a base game thing for it to insta-kill, but to have a round end within a minute is not fun for both Hale and Players especially if it is for several rounds even with Hale players above 9,000+ health. This can also happen on maps other than Sky-High which is just boring and part of a problem that continues to grow.
Medi
- Reduce the starting uber from 45% to 10-20%.
• This is way too much considering how fast a medic can get an uber and sustain an uber. If a Hale player cannot pick off the medics, the amount of uber and ubered players will be able to swarm the Hale player, making it nearly impossible for the Hale to win.
- Reduce the given uber from after an uber usage from 20% to 5-10%
• This falls into the first nerf for the medic, it allows the medic to get a lot of ubers way too fast which prevents the Hale from either killing them, or killing other players, making it nearly impossible for the Hale to win.
- Reduce the uber charge rate.
• Again, this makes the Medic way too powerful and is a deserved nerf as it gives the medic less than a minute, making it harder for the Hale to stop the ubers which the medic can get very quickly with how fast the charge rate is at right now.
- Reduce how much uber is gained from syringes hitting Hale.
• As I have been told by players that actually use syringe guns instead of the Crusader's Crossbow, it gives 5% per hit excluding the Overdose which gives 1% per hit. The 5% is way too much and the syringe guns should match the 1% that the Overdose has. That is more fair and balanced.
- Reduce how much uber is gained from Crusader's Crossbow bolt hitting Hale.
• I personally use the Crusader's Crossbow and the 15% is way too much with how much the medic gets uber with hitting your shots. This may reward good shots, but this is ridiculous with how medic is currently and there are many complaints. Reduce this down to half or lower and this will be fine enough.
Sniper:
+ Sydney Sleeper should reduce Hale's rage with fully charged shots.
• As I have been told by many many players, this is not needed but this should've been added and the Sydney Sleeper mechanic could be used in some way like this. With the nerf to knockback based on the charge, this should be an okay change as every other sniper rifle is still usable.
- Have knockback based on the amount of charge you have from being zoomed in.
• This should be a given as any shot, scoped in or scoped out do the same amount of knockback that annoy and pester hale way too much with how the knockback is currently. With no charge, the knockback should be minimal and a fully charged shot should be significant.
- Unscoped shots have little to no knockback.
•The knockback is the same as a scoped shot, but this also allows the sniper to at least escape a Hale player so this change is a suggestion and I am not expecting it to become a thing.
Spy:
- Fix the goomba insta-kill bug.
• This falls under telefrags, it happens more and more and insta-kills the Hale at any health. As I've been told if a spy goomba's and backstabs a hale at the same time, that just gets annoying to deal with as it happens more than you can think.
Last edited: