Enable Bhop.

Disable Dead Ringer.

Here's the problem with bhop in Saxton Hale:

• If a red bhops (and hale doesn't) then it becomes much more difficult for the hale to kill them, especially when they're an already hard-to-kill class like Scout, Pyro, Spy... Not to mention how demo and soldier can reach insane speeds with just one sticky/rocket jump.
• If the hale bhops it becomes impossible for most reds to run away from the hale, it just takes one Hale jump and you have enough speed to outrun every single class in the game. Couple this with bhop and in some JB maps Hale can traverse to the other side of the map in mere seconds.

Obviously all of this doesn't matter if people don't understand how to bhop correctly, but if the hale knows how to bhop efficiently it becomes incredibly difficult for reds to win. As for reds bhoping: there's a reason why there isn't a single class who can outrun Hale in regular VSH, I don't see why this should be different in JB's version of VSH.

Bhopping Hales aren't fun to play against. Bhopping spies aren't fun to play against.

You don't need bhop to play vsh, it was and still is balanced for use without bhop.

Bhopping spies with dead ringer are annoying and pain

Rodd said:

Bhopping spies with dead ringer are annoying and pain

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Dead ringer on top.

Peter said:

Bhopping Hales aren't fun to play against. Bhopping spies aren't fun to play against.

You don't need bhop to play vsh, it was and still is balanced for use without bhop.

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Rodd said:

Bhopping spies with dead ringer are annoying and pain

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ender said:

Dead ringer on top.

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^
Bhopping in VSH only encourages delaying, nobody wants to sit down for 4 minutes to watch you backstab the hale only to deadring and bhop a lap around the map to heal, rinse and repeat.

TreeStal said:

So pretty much most classes can't out run the Saxton without Bhop

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Scouts, Soldiers and Pyros already have the upperhand of mobility against hale and the classic gamemode doesn't have bhop anyways, having Bhop was really a luxury that probably only happened because the server had it to begin with and not because it was really taken into account for the LR, all of this goes without saying that you're not ment to outrun Hale, in the sense that he will eventually catch up to you and you must always use mobilty as you keep fighting, he is almost as fast as a scout for a reason.

Dee said:

Here's the problem with bhop in Saxton Hale:

• If a red bhops (and hale doesn't) then it becomes much more difficult for the hale to kill them, especially when they're an already hard-to-kill class like Scout, Pyro, Spy...
• If the hale bhops it becomes impossible for most reds to run away from the hale, it just takes one Hale jump and you have enough speed to outrun every single class in the game. Couple this with bhop and in some JB maps Hale can traverse to the other side of the map in mere seconds.

Obviously all of this doesn't matter if people don't understand how to bhop correctly, but if the hale knows how to bhop efficiently it becomes incredibly difficult for reds to win. As for reds bhoping: there's a reason why there isn't a single class who can outrun Hale in regular VSH, I don't see why this should be different in JB's version of VSH.

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Pyro and Scout are very hard classes to kill... ?. No they are not, the majority of the time they're just very confident in their methods of keeping saxton away (ie; Force of Nature and Airblast) and that's usually their downfall, running out of ammo or missing a single shot.

Dee said:

If the hale bhops it becomes impossible for most reds to run away from the hale, it just takes one Hale jump and you have enough speed to outrun every single class in the game. Couple this with bhop and in some JB maps Hale can traverse to the other side of the map in mere seconds.

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I feel like your forgetting knockback exist and it is very easy to poke saxton twice with a revolver or pistol to kill his speed.

I actually really like Cowboys idea and it does sound like a fair trade considering spy needs to unholster the dead ringer anyway to deal trIcKsTAb damage.

Sargentman16 said:

Pyro and Scout are very hard classes to kill... ?. No they are not, the majority of the time they're just very confident in their methods of keeping saxton away (ie; Force of Nature and Airblast) and that's usually their downfall, running out of ammo or missing a single shot.

I feel like your forgetting knockback exist and it is very easy to poke saxton twice with a revolver or pistol to kill his speed.

I actually really like Cowboys idea and it does sound like a fair trade considering spy needs to unholster the dead ringer anyway to deal trIcKsTAb damage.

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you really think spy minicrits can kill the speed of a hale travelling upwards of 1000 hu/s ?? From all my experience playing vsh in jailbreak, a bhopping hale wins, a non bhopping hale loses. This isn't fun for people who don't play source games all the time and don't know how to properly bhop.

I think the current Hale should have a hp buff though as most Hales now lose without their funny bhop crutch.

Removing dead ringer also wouldn't do anything as something just as annoying weapon called the invisible watch exists which can also tank a hit from Hale. Also, as I said before, Hales who know how to bhop would win most of the time so nerfing the red team isn't a good idea.

Peter said:

you really think spy minicrits can kill the speed of a hale travelling upwards of 1000 hu/s ?? From all my experience playing vsh in jailbreak, a bhopping hale wins, a non bhopping hale loses. This isn't fun for people who don't play source games all the time and don't know how to properly bhop.

I think the current Hale should have a hp buff though as most Hales now lose without their funny bhop crutch.

Removing dead ringer also wouldn't do anything as something just as annoying weapon called the invisible watch exists which can also tank a hit from Hale. Also, as I said before, Hales who know how to bhop would win most of the time so nerfing the red team isn't a good idea.

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Does Hale get extra hp in the classic gamemode? If not, why would he need it in jb?

ender said:

Does Hale get extra hp in the classic gamemode? If not, why would he need it in jb?

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Im pretty sure he means to revert the hale hp nerf. Still being mad or annoyed because you'd lose to a bhopping hale sounds like a skill issue

Sargentman16 said:

Im pretty sure he means to revert the hale hp nerf. Still being mad or annoyed because you'd lose to a bhopping hale sounds like a skill issue

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It isn't really a skill issue when you just get one shot.

If you want to add bhop back on JB, I don't recommend it anymore since spies are easy to "NOT" get killed by Hale because of deathwatch, etc.

Don't quite see a reason to have bhop, when every vsh server does not have bhop. It breaks the dynamics of vsh