Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

Completed Permanent mute/gag after 5 times

Status
Not open for further replies.

Buster

Who you gonna call?!
Staff Member
Admin
Joined
Jun 26, 2016
Messages
1,395
So I have been wondering if something like this would be possible and if it is, would you support it.

I often find myself muting the same people, and although I try to scale up the length of the mutes it's clear that they won't learn anything from the punishment and keep on spamming, annoying people when someone isn't there to stop them.

Sometimes when I read a ban appeal here and go to sourcebans I spot people who have been muted 7 times and gagged 4 times by other admins.

Would it be possible to automatically permamute/permagag someone after he had been muted/gagged for 5 times? With this new feature admins wouldn't just delay the rule breaking, but with time permanently solve the issue.

1 more thing: I've noticed a lot of admins forget to give reasons when they mute/gag people. In other words, get gud, give reasons.
 
Last edited:

Noodl

Something Else
Staff Member
Developer
Admin

Noodl

Online
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
437
Yes.

Automatically, not without a bit of work, but manually, admins should be checking SourceBans when administering sanctions.
 
Last edited:

2010wolf | Blw.tf

Wooh, Sick airshot duuuuude!
Staff Member
Admin
Mapper
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
820
Would it be possible to automatically permamute/permagag someone after he had been muted/gagged for 5 times? With this new feature admins wouldn't just delay the rule breaking, but with time permanently solve the issue.

There are so many situations where this plug-in would fuck up big time.

plus... 5 times of gag/mute is a quite a small number of chances.... considering that the first 3 times of muting/gaging for around a 2 days or less are usually a way to warn that player from the permamute/permagag that are up ahead. (ofc the player is warned around 3 times before every time he gets muted/gaged)

So... for example in jailbreak, i sometimes mute the whole red team for "one minute" so that the warden can speak.
if it happens that one of them was already gaged/muted 4 times and i did this command, he would be fucked :D.

i really think that chaining the admins with the amount of mutes/gags with only 5 chances that the players have is just ridiculous... you have no idea how many times i gag/mute the same player in jailbreak for example, or in saxton hale, or in the trade server.

if this plug-in existed it would change things to worse, there will be reports all the time of people getting permanently muted/gaged on the website, and thus it's just going to fuck things up

The thing is... if you saw someone that you gaged or muted (too many times "which depends on how many times is too many times for each admin") considering how you judge as an admin, you can go ahead and gag/mute/ban him permanently or for a month or more.

1 more thing: I've noticed a lot of admins forget to give reasons when they mute/gag people. In other words, get gud, give reasons.

To be honest, i'm one of these people.... and thinking about it... why would i ever mention why i gaged or muted a player?
i mean... it's very obvious isn't it? mate, you are talking to a trust worthy admins that punish players for obvious reasons.... screaming, singing, talking over the warden, speaking non-english, etc.....

it just doesn't make sense :D

the thing is we don't need to write down a reason in a mute/gag, for me at least if i did that i find it a huge waste of my time... not only writing down why i muted a single player but around 10~20 players per-day or even more.... if we say that we take 4~10 seconds to write down the reason that's around 40~200 seconds wasted in our day, and that's just a waste of time. (at least for me)

However we DO need to write down a reason if we banned someone.

However... surprise surprise... this is just my opinion....

After a little talk with buster, about the first part of the thread, i feel like i'm confused about so many parts he mentioned between our chat that weren't mentioned in the post... soooo idk, i may have fuked up xD i cri evry tim
 
Last edited:

Buster

Who you gonna call?!
Staff Member
Admin
Joined
Jun 26, 2016
Messages
1,395
5 times of gag/mute is a quite a small number of chances.... considering that the first 3 times of muting/gaging for around a 2 days or less are usually a way to warn that player from the permamute/permagag that are up ahead. (ofc the player is warned around 3 times before every time he gets muted)
I don't think you have to warn people about the permamute. You warn a player every time he breaks a rule in chat, voice chat (or as i do sm_psay spam), then if the player doesn't stop, you punish. If someone doesn't change after 5 times getting warned and 5 times getting punished, that person either doesn't speak english or is fucked in the head.

i sometimes mute the whole red team for "one minute" so that the warden can speak.
I think Ben could make it so only longer mutes count. (for example 30 min. and +)

40~200 seconds wasted in our day, and that's just a waste of time. (at least for me)
I think you have wasted a lot more time waiting in a bus stop or playing mobile games on the toilet than to give the reason to the player who is getting punished. It literally takes a few more words "/gag asdf 30 Spam"

There are so many situations
Yeah, two xd
 
Last edited:

2010wolf | Blw.tf

Wooh, Sick airshot duuuuude!
Staff Member
Admin
Mapper
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
820
I don't think you have to warn people about the permamute. You warn a player every time he breaks a rule in chat, voice chat (or as i do sm_psay spam), then if the player doesn't stop, you punish. If someone doesn't change after 5 times getting warned and punished, that person either doesn't speak english or is fucked in the head.
i'm not saying that they should be warned about the permamute/gag, but i said that the mute/gag is considered a way of warning them about the up coming permamute/gag.

So... if someone doesn't stop after 5 times, what's the solution? do we just leave them? do we permamute/gag them? do we just mute/gag them for a longer time?

I think Ben could make it so only longer mutes count. (for example 30 min. and +)

Well... if this was really made into a plug-in... or was applied in any way, we should talk about the amount of mins this plug-in applies that maybe most of us agree on. for example i think it should be 1h and +
but idk we will figure this out later.

I think you have wasted a lot more time waiting in a bus stop or playing mobile games on the toilet than to give the reason to the player who is getting punished. It literally takes a few more words "/gag asdf 30 Spam"

honestly i just find it very VERY unnecessary to write down a reason, as i mentioned before we are admins that are fully aware of small things like voice/text spamming and thus we punish players for such acts, it's... not a big deal if we put a reason or not, and that's just my opinion....

Yeah, two xd

Welp, sometimes i would like to mute everyone so i could say a word, or tell a very important thing or message.

sometimes i need to gag/mute a single player for like 1~5 mins so some other players can talk, keep in mind that the player i need to mute is someone that is close to me or someone that i know, or someone that i told him to notify me when there are any rule breakers, and if that "someone" was for example talking over the warden i will simply mute him for 1~5 mins, just to make the warden speak. and then immediately unmute him.

sometimes i have to mute/gag some players just to "test" something.

sometimes i have to gag/mute a player just to tell him a message or tell him something while he is mumbling about an issue, and so i clear things up for him.

and so on....
 

Noodl

Something Else
Staff Member
Developer
Admin

Noodl

Online
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
437
honestly i just find it very VERY unnecessary to write down a reason, as i mentioned before we are admins that are fully aware of small things like voice/text spamming and thus we punish players for such acts, it's... not a big deal if we put a reason or not, and that's just my opinion....

I've been muted/gagged. I join a server I played on before. I can't talk. Why? I go to the SourceBans page and search my ID. I'm gagged. Why? I see who did it, but no reason as to why I'm gagged. How am I supposed to appeal my sanction?

"Insulting" might be the reply in the thread I make. But I was calling my friend a twat/dickhead/faggot etc, not anyone else. Is my gag still justified?

Reasons aren't for admins, though it helps keep stuff clear when checking back through old records, more often for the benefit of players.

All your sanctions should show up in SourceBans if you're doing it right. If they're sub-30 mins you can tell they're not a big problem, so tracking the numbers isn't an issue.
 

2010wolf | Blw.tf

Wooh, Sick airshot duuuuude!
Staff Member
Admin
Mapper
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
820
I've been muted/gagged. I join a server I played on before. I can't talk. Why? I go to the SourceBans page and search my ID. I'm gagged. Why? I see who did it, but no reason as to why I'm gagged. How am I supposed to appeal my sanction?

"Insulting" might be the reply in the thread I make. But I was calling my friend a twat/dickhead/faggot etc, not anyone else. Is my gag still justified?

Reasons aren't for admins, though it helps keep stuff clear when checking back through old records, more often for the benefit of players.

All your sanctions should show up in SourceBans if you're doing it right. If they're sub-30 mins you can tell they're not a big problem, so tracking the numbers isn't an issue.

Well... i always have this thing in mind that... the person i gaged/muted already knew what he was doing and why he was gaged/muted... because it's obvious you got muted for screaming in the chat non-stop or for no reason... it's obvious that you got gaged for spamming the text chat too many times...
unless they want to play dumb >_>

however... since you just mentioned that it depends on how long the ban is (30 mins or less is okay... or somewhat a really short time) i think i agree with what you said since it makes a lot of sense.

Thank you for your time noodl :3
 

tomato.kitty.tf

The King of Kats
Joined
Apr 20, 2016
Messages
668
Absolutely yes, there are certain players that won't stop being naughty even after 9000 mute/gags
and in my opinion it would be good to have a max quota of bans. 5, for example, being the sixth a permanent, regardless the reason.
 

2010wolf | Blw.tf

Wooh, Sick airshot duuuuude!
Staff Member
Admin
Mapper
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
820
So... let me get this straight... if a player was permanently muted... from this plug-in, can he like... make an unmute app? so that he can be unmuted after the many chances he was given? and then us admins will decide whether we should unmute him or not? is that's how it is?

if so... i guess i can see how people would agree on this idea, including me (just now).

i just want to know if that's what you mean xD
 

Noodl

Something Else
Staff Member
Developer
Admin

Noodl

Online
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
437
So... let me get this straight... if a player was permanently muted... from this plug-in, can he like... make an unmute app? so that he can be unmuted after the many chances he was given? and then us admins will decide whether we should unmute him or not? is that's how it is?

if so... i guess i can see how people would agree on this idea, including me (just now).

i just want to know if that's what you mean xD

It would insert MySQL into the SourceBans table, so yes, it would appear and editable by admins like any other ban.

I don't believe having this automated would be the best solution. Should it be a de facto guideline for admins? Sure. But having a plugin automate it? I can see several small mutes/gags adding up to a perm that's unjustified. I think it's more up the the admins' discretion as to whether or not the scale of their previous bans is legitimate for a perm. It would also be a lot of unnecessary SQL queries if you were to check their number of bans/comms every time a player was sanctioned, to see if it needed perming.

If I'm gagged for 3mins, 3mins, 5mins, 30mins and 10mins, why should I be permed? Maybe I was just talking over a warden (God forbid I ever play jailbreak) a few times, or spammed a couple binds and got insta-muted.

ALTERNATIVELY, what I deem the best solution, also far easier, is just as SB queries and displays a player's number of precious bans ("[SourceBans] Player Noodl has 3 previous bans on record"), to query their amount of comm blocks at the same time, so you'd know how many blocks they've had before, which would help your decision. This little extension is added in a couple of minutes.
 

Buster

Who you gonna call?!
Staff Member
Admin
Joined
Jun 26, 2016
Messages
1,395
If I'm gagged for 3mins, 3mins, 5mins, 30mins and 10mins, why should I be permed?
We agreed that it would only count 30 and + minute sanctions or 1hr and +. This way it'd be impossible for you to get a permanent mute/gag that you didn't deserve.
Your second option is only bad because what if I don't see that and remember that when the player joins?
 
Last edited:

MiyukiMouse

Swiss Knife
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
1,094
If the person breaks the same rule 5 times, I asume he had 4 warnings (or more) to change his attitude and just refused to do so.

But will you guys look at only 30min+ by admin or also by console? And don't mute all people on red team in Jailbreak maybe? If they keep talking through Warden, they can be killed or gagged? It's a rule on the server, no?

But can they appeal within months or year if they claim to have changed over time and still were active on said servers?
 

Buster

Who you gonna call?!
Staff Member
Admin
Joined
Jun 26, 2016
Messages
1,395
They could appeal, but I doubt someone who had five 30+ min mutes and therefor got permamuted has a good enough excuse to just get unmuted.

That's like stealing candy from a shop 5 times, getting caught, warned, and punished for it 5 times, then on the 6th time the person goes to jail and asks the officer to let him go because he suddenly changed xd

Who would believe that? Normal people usually understand what they did wrong after the first punishment.
 

MiyukiMouse

Swiss Knife
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
1,094
They could appeal, but I doubt someone who had five 30+ min mutes and therefor got permamuted has a good enough excuse to just get unmuted. That's like stealing candy from a shop 5 times, getting caught, warned, and punished for it 5 times, then on the 6th time the person goes to jail and asks the officer to let him go because he suddenly changed xd
I don't mean instantly appeal for it. They can try but chances on success will be small. But kids are kids, and what if he still plays around the servers and in a year appeals because he wants to talk and learned to behave? Will there be any chance they get a second chance or not? Just wondering.
 

Buster

Who you gonna call?!
Staff Member
Admin
Joined
Jun 26, 2016
Messages
1,395
I think so, yes. We'd accept apologies but would probably only reduce his amount of mutes (or gags) to 4 or 5. So if he breaks the same rules again and gets caught then he'll sadly have no excuse. (At least that's what I'm thinking right now, the person shouldn't just get a start over or clean sheet)
 
Last edited:

DeadGaming666

Spectacularly Lethal
Mapper
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
203
I believe that they shouldn't get mute/gagged permanently, but for a month. The month passes, they misuse it for the sixth time it should go to 2 months, and it doubles from there
 

MiyukiMouse

Swiss Knife
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
1,094
I believe that they shouldn't get mute/gagged permanently, but for a month. The month passes, they misuse it for the sixth time it should go to 2 months, and it doubles from there
Well, there is a community that works with "an hour, a day, a week, two weeks and a month" .. so maybe it can be among the lines.. the amount of gags resulting in longer gags/bans maybe?
 

DeadGaming666

Spectacularly Lethal
Mapper
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
203
This is what I think:
1. Warning
2. 30 min mute/gag
3. 1 hour mute/gag
4. 1 week mute/gag
5. 1 year mute/gag
6. Permanent mute/gag
7. Permanent mute/gag (with no hope of appeal
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Who Read This Thread (Total Members: 3)

Top Bottom